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An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

reuters.com

11–20 of 224 posts

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#11
How is the world going to balance instant low friction commerce with the need to prevent instant low friction fraud...

I don't think anyone has answers, it's a problem that will affect crypto payments as well as Fiat payments.. I hoped Confirmation of Payee would help, but the massive increase in APP fraud in the last 12 months seems to dispel that notion..

Maybe the answer is money that doesn't settle instantly.. Kind of like how your paypal payments are "on hold" whenever you get them to give the sender time to realise they've been scammed. Maybe all payments take 2 weeks to settle, and everyone lives on free credit up to the unsettled amount..

edit: I worked at Monzo for 5 years, and was in the original Confirmation of Payee meetings as Monzos rep to Open Banking

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#12
> The fraudsters had told her to shift her "at risk" cash to an account on a cryptocurrency platform that they emptied - while isolating her from family by stressing secrecy and coaching her on how to respond to sceptical bank officials. "They knew the name of my financial adviser, they were utterly convincing as FCA staff," she said. "And they told me I could not tell anyone about the investigation as it would damage their efforts to catch the crooks."

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#13
post #11

How is the world going to balance instant low friction commerce with the need to prevent instant low friction fraud... I don't think anyone has answers, it's a problem that will affect crypto payments as well as Fiat payments.. I hoped Confirmation of Payee would help, but the massive increase in APP fraud in the last 12 months seems to dispel that notion.. Maybe the answer is money that doesn't settle instantly.. Ki…

> Maybe the answer is money that doesn't settle instantly.. Kind of like how your paypal payments are "on hold" whenever you get them to give the sender time to realise they've been scammed. Maybe all payments take 2 weeks to settle, and everyone lives on free credit up to the unsettled amount..

Well, all credit card payments are basically exactly this (which you’d know, given your previous job). The crypto crowd always yell “no chargebacks!” when trying to attract people to their platforms, but chargebacks are actually a feature, not a bug — for the very reason you just described.

I don’t like it, though. It seems totally inefficient, and there are better ways to do this.

Edit: I want to add, because of chargebacks, any credit card processor that doesn’t hold your money for, like, 6 months or whatever, is accepting the credit risk associated with what would happen if all of your transactions were charged back and you weren’t good for the money. Hence why their risk management is a nightmare, and why anyone who enters that space ends up looking like a bad guy who arbitrarily freezes people’s money (unless they choose to use humans rather than AI, but that doesn’t “scale,” right?).

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#14
post #6

Britain being where the victims are, not the criminals. Some reasons why Brits might be so so vulnerable: * Major: English speaking so common to be targeted from less affluent ex-commonwealth countries. * Major: Ageing population have most of the wealth. * Major: Lots of vulnerable victims online and relatively high social media engagement. * Major: Little fear of retaliation (other than Jim Browning). The UK is havi…

Why would brexit impact police interactions with other commonwealth countries. Or even global policing.

AFAIK Europol has been a significant factor in fighting online fraud because much of it is international and the same group targets many EU countries at once.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#15
post #6

Britain being where the victims are, not the criminals. Some reasons why Brits might be so so vulnerable: * Major: English speaking so common to be targeted from less affluent ex-commonwealth countries. * Major: Ageing population have most of the wealth. * Major: Lots of vulnerable victims online and relatively high social media engagement. * Major: Little fear of retaliation (other than Jim Browning). The UK is havi…

Why would brexit impact police interactions with other commonwealth countries. Or even global policing.

Because we lost access to many EU police databases and data sharing agreements. We negotiated continued access to some stuff, but there are still some significant gaps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56529359

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#16
Ooh we're still the capital of something.

Personally I think this comes down to ineffective education in many cases. Yes, some of these scams are getting quite impressively advanced, and they tend to target older people who are declining in cognitive ability, but so often the victims are absolutely unwilling to admit they were a bit stupid. It's always someone else's fault, like the bank, or the police, or Facebook, and not theirs for doing a direct bank transfer to some random person who told them it was an emergency. It is frustratingly hard to protect old people from this though - my nan got scammed for a new mattress by a door-to-door salesman when she was in a care home, who dropped the ball by letting him in at all. Another OAP I know would be a fairly easy target too, as she seems like she'd trust a "nice young man" more than her own family at this point (unwarranted, I should add).

Our tech education in particular was fucking woeful when I was at school and I have to assume it's little better now. To me, avoiding scams seems fairly straightforward:

1) If it's too good to be true, it's not true.

2) Never fill out a form from a link in an email.

3) Don't provide any details to anyone who phones or emails you, always look up their official phone number and phone them back. I use multiple devices to do this and multiple sources to avoid compromised sites like one of the examples. Call up the directory service on the phone and compare that too, if needed.

Perhaps there's also a cultural aspect to why the British are so easy to scam? Maybe our curious mix of laziness, stupidity, superiority complex, and greed combine to make us the perfect targets.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#17
post #8

All the major banks offer Confirmation of Payee nowadays. Why are people still falling victim to APP?

I imagine this is weirdly easy to socially engineer your way around, as a scammer. "Oh you can ignore that, we're a subsidiary department of the bank so it shows up differently" etc

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#18

Ooh we're still the capital of something. Personally I think this comes down to ineffective education in many cases. Yes, some of these scams are getting quite impressively advanced, and they tend to target older people who are declining in cognitive ability, but so often the victims are absolutely unwilling to admit they were a bit stupid. It's always someone else's fault, like the bank, or the police, or Facebook,…

'Maybe our curious mix of laziness, stupidity, superiority complex, and greed combine to make us the perfect targets.'

Or, maybe, our good manners?

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#19
Part of the problem is too many databases have been compromised. If a scammer calls up and knows all the victim's details, the scammer is much more convincing and the victim is much more likely to be fooled.

As for why the UK is a hot spot, I could guess it's to do with the phone system? I get loads of spam calls, but I have no way to find out what company or person the caller phone numbers are used by.

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