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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#11

Post by mortehu »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

On the other hand communication during this pandemic has been littered with point estimates where confidence intervals should have been used. Based on the FHI announcement, I think the result is not significant, but the decision was made because the Moderna vaccine is now redundant in Scandinavia.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#12

Post by jbergstroem »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

In sweden, this seems to be the "recommendation" from the government: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/nyheter-och-press/nyhets...

..which links to https://www.lakemedelsverket.se/sv/nyheter/covid-19-mrna-vac...

..which in turn seems to point here: https://www.lakemedelsverket.se/4a0b25/globalassets/dokument...

..which references EMA & EES which are European that states "145 cases of myocarditis out of 177M dosis of Comirnaty".

Have anyone else found a better source?

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#13

Post by mfer »

azinman2 wrote: post #7
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

2.7 per 100k [1] according to an Israeli study. Couldn’t find these details on the Scandinavian study. This article at least in text said you’re more at risk of getting it from Covid than the vaccine — I wish this context with numbers were always printed in these cases. The non-scientifically trained public isn’t taught or should be expected to know how to contextualize these things. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full…

The Israeli study was on Phizer. Finland is recommending people people not take Moderna and instead take the Phizer.

Without a more detailed case behind this it feels like "just trust us".

I'd really like some trust but verify. The lack of ability to verify many of these directions, especially with some of them from different organizations contradicting each other, is bothersome.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#14

Post by mytoothhurts »

Geez, as the real data behind the vaccine slowly drips out I'm happier and happier I didn't inject an experimental drug in me. Especially considering all the "studies" thus far have taken place during summer when covid isn't an issue anyways. What we've learned since their release:

- the spike protein is toxic

- vaccine immunity is narrow, binding to only a few epitopes on the virus

- immunity wanes quickly

- IgA antibodies aren't produced by the vaccine, causing vaccinated to still suffer infection

- heart inflammation becoming more and more common

- the mrna accumulated literally all over the body, not just the muscle as we were initially told

- manufacturing of these vaccines are subject to frequent contamination

And that's just to name a few. Glad didn't take the jab for a disease that's not a risk to most healthy young people.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#15

Post by schmichael »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

Indeed. A little clicking, and I couldn't find numbers either. Luckily raw numbers aren't all that necessary for decision making because:

> The risk of myocarditis is substantially increased for those who contract COVID-19, and vaccination is the best way to protect against this.

So even if only Moderna is available to you, you are still safer getting it than COVID-19. I think these countries are just making sure that each demographic gets the safest vaccine for them which is great.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#16

Post by Gibbon1 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

They don't because if they put numbers and also described the usual clinical course of these cases it would show the issue to be a nothing burger.

The numbers I saw were about 1.0 per 100k were hospitalized for 2-3 days. No deaths and half those recovered completely after a month.

I haven't seen anyone say this but that's probably the same risk of myocarditis you get from the flu. And 100 times lower than the risk from covid.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#17

Post by mikeyouse »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

The study is preliminary - but they're being cautious and recommending young men switch to the Pfizer vaccine since the risk of myocarditis is lower.

But just so people don't get the wrong idea, they're finding that the risk of myocarditis in young men who've actually caught Covid is something like 6x more likely than in those who received the vaccine:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v...

So if you're a young male, the correct response to avoiding myocarditis (among all of the other downsides that come with actually catching Covid) is to get vaccinated with the Pfizer or J&J shots.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#18

Post by mach1ne »

mfer wrote: post #8

So, they are halting the Moderna vaccine due to myocarditis and recommending the Phizer shot for younger men. Yet, Israel found the Phizer shot lead to myocarditis issues [0]. I wonder what the numbers are and what data decision makers are looking at. [0] https://archive.is/3bZoH/ (NYTimes)

I assume that the numbers reported (one comment quoted 6/39000) are actually lowballed, since you constantly hear about cases where symptoms obviously relevant to covid/vaccines are dismissed as not connected.

I would guess decisionmakers take the reluctance to report into account when estimating the true risk factors.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#19

Post by that_lurker »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

Taken and translated from THL's website[1] (Finnish Institute for Healt and Welfare ) "in its study, THL has examined the incidence of myocardial inflammation requiring hospitalization in different age groups. In boys and men aged 12–39 years, a total of 6 cases of myocarditis have been reported in Finland per 381,000 doses of Comirnaty and less than 5 cases per less than 49,000 doses of Spikevax in Finland. A total of less than five cases of myocarditis have been reported in girls and women of the same age, and the prevalence of myocarditis in women and girls after vaccination has not differed from that normally seen in the general population."

The study is still ongoing in Finland, but as the early results seem to match with the other nordic countries the limitation has been placed.

[1] (Page is only in Finnish still as it was written today). https://thl.fi/fi/-/thl-ohjeistaa-tarjoamaan-alle-30-vuotiai...

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#20

Post by tomp »

In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people.

Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.

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