Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

motherjones.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 344 posts

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#11

Post by louwrentius »

MattGaiser wrote: post #3

1. How do other companies handle these situations? How do you effectively handle an employee rendered unable to perform their job due to tragedy? This came up with Atlassian a few weeks ago, and they have a much better reputation than Amazon and it doesn't seem like they handled things in a great way either. The reality is that you might just need to terminate people who cannot perform, no matter what the reason. 2.…

It’s so fucking simple.

Let them do their work as best as they can under the circumstances. maybe allow them to work less hours / part-time if that’s what they need.

Really, work isn’t all-or-nothing. Like either you do 60h a week or you’re worthless, that’s just a typical American cultural thing to make you a work slave.

A decent company accommodates people who have a spouse with a terminal illness.

It’s that simple. You treat people like fucking human beings.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#12

Post by asjldkfin »

starbugs wrote: post #7
MattGaiser wrote: post #3

1. How do other companies handle these situations? How do you effectively handle an employee rendered unable to perform their job due to tragedy? This came up with Atlassian a few weeks ago, and they have a much better reputation than Amazon and it doesn't seem like they handled things in a great way either. The reality is that you might just need to terminate people who cannot perform, no matter what the reason. 2.…

You behave like a human being with feelings. You do the best you can to support and help someone who suffers unbelievably and you f**ing show some empathy. This involves actually putting yourself in the shoes of someone else, yes. It means that you share a part of their suffering. You are dealing with a human, not a "resource" and not a machine. It sickens me to read stories like that to the point where I really cons…

If I'm paying a person $200-$300K to build a house and his wife gets cancer; it doesn't entitle him to keep my money. He gives it back because he didn't do his job.

Same principle.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#13

Post by louwrentius »

Jiro wrote: post #6
mrRandomGuy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 'normal' company would understand that while a persons significant other is dying of a cancer, their work output may suffer as a result.

If I was a plumber, and my wife was dying, and as a result I was unable to repair plumbing, I would not expect anyone to give me money to repair their plumbing, not even if I told them my wife is dying and they should be sympathetic.

You might work part-time and so balance work/income and care.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#14

Post by Traubenfuchs »

I don‘t understand how someone smart enough to make 300.000 a year (That is an insane fortune to almost everyone, even in first world countries) feels entitled to a month-, year-long reduction of performance expectations because of personal tragedy.

There are thousands waiting for his position and they would kill to get it.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#15

Post by starbugs »

asjldkfin wrote: post #12
starbugs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You behave like a human being with feelings. You do the best you can to support and help someone who suffers unbelievably and you f**ing show some empathy. This involves actually putting yourself in the shoes of someone else, yes. It means that you share a part of their suffering. You are dealing with a human, not a "resource" and not a machine. It sickens me to read stories like that to the point where I really cons…

If I'm paying a person $200-$300K to build a house and his wife gets cancer; it doesn't entitle him to keep my money. He gives it back because he didn't do his job. Same principle.

This is actually not about money. It's about a human life.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#16

Post by zerr »

Jiro wrote: post #6
mrRandomGuy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 'normal' company would understand that while a persons significant other is dying of a cancer, their work output may suffer as a result.

If I was a plumber, and my wife was dying, and as a result I was unable to repair plumbing, I would not expect anyone to give me money to repair their plumbing, not even if I told them my wife is dying and they should be sympathetic.

Employment != Sole proprietorship. Employer != Client.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#17

Post by aaomidi »

MattGaiser wrote: post #3

1. How do other companies handle these situations? How do you effectively handle an employee rendered unable to perform their job due to tragedy? This came up with Atlassian a few weeks ago, and they have a much better reputation than Amazon and it doesn't seem like they handled things in a great way either. The reality is that you might just need to terminate people who cannot perform, no matter what the reason. 2.…

> I am obviously sympathetic to his plight, but at this point Amazon has that reputation as a brutal employer. Every ex-Amazonian I have known in real life has told me that the pay is so that they own you, whether 3PM or 3AM and they have no qualms about firing you (a former co-worker who was with AWS said that if I ever take an AWS role, don't get a full year lease for a condo in Seattle). Not to blame him, but it is unfortunate that he didn't have someone who could advise him that taking a hard job at a notoriously uncaring company with a sick wife would be unwise.

Make it illegal to companies to do this. Simple. Companies operate within the laws of the society they're based in. If Amazon doesn't like it they can take their bags and go somewhere else.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#18

Post by ivraatiems »

asjldkfin wrote: post #12
starbugs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You behave like a human being with feelings. You do the best you can to support and help someone who suffers unbelievably and you f**ing show some empathy. This involves actually putting yourself in the shoes of someone else, yes. It means that you share a part of their suffering. You are dealing with a human, not a "resource" and not a machine. It sickens me to read stories like that to the point where I really cons…

If I'm paying a person $200-$300K to build a house and his wife gets cancer; it doesn't entitle him to keep my money. He gives it back because he didn't do his job. Same principle.

It's not about "your rights", it's about "what's right". Sure, you're within your rights. But when you're a trillion-dollar-market-cap company, you can eat $300k for a year and let the employee get through his grief and come back to you.

Also, you edited your comment in a way that was deceptive, and didn't say the reason for the edit -- but your comparison is still flawed. $300k to you is pennies to Amazon.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#19

Post by nickff »

mrRandomGuy wrote: post #5
CoastalCoder wrote: post #2

I read through the article. I really, really hurt for its author, and pray that I never face similar circumstances. It sounds like he's stinging from his manager not expressing enough empathy. But with the information in the article, I don't really understand what Amazon should have done differently. Unfortunately the article was vague about just how much the author was underperforming. Also, while I'm no fan of Amaz…

A 'normal' company would understand that while a persons significant other is dying of a cancer, their work output may suffer as a result.

The issue here may have been that the manager had no baseline of 'good performance' that they could expect this individual to 'return to'.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#20

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

Believe it or not, this isn't a rare attitude among managers at Amazon. A significant percentage of SDMs believe they must "keep a high bar" and remove any dissenting subordinates. Word has gotten out about it, mostly on the blind app, which forced Amazon to raise pay bands for engineers 50-100k. This is costing the company a lot of money.

The difference going forwards for Amazon is that the stock is mostly stagnant, and so employees are no longer putting up with miserable harsh working conditions, the financial incentives are no longer there.

Post reply on HN