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Introducing Age Verification

blog.roblox.com

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Re: Introducing Age Verification

#11

Post by gruez »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
watermelon0 wrote: post #9

Where does the need for hard verification of the age come from? My friends and I were using the internet when we were under 13 years old (although not by much), and just clicked the button to confirm that we are older than 13 (mostly on various forums), and later on the same thing with 18 years old verification screens, and we turned out alright (at least from my perspective.)

Children's Online Privacy Protection Rule ("COPPA") https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules/rulemaking-regulatory-... EDIT: @gruez: An attestion is likely no longer sufficient for Roblox's compliance requirements, and identity proofing is now cheap to perform (~$1-2/per proofing request). Cheaper to get ahead of the curve. https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/21/22684672/roblox-age-verif... > For now, only one feature requi…

That piece of legislation was from 21 years ago. What changed? In the past a "I'm 13" checkbox would have sufficed.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#12

Post by michaelt »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

A component of my work is in digital identity, so I hope you don’t mind the question: what would make you comfortable doing so? For Roblox, I can see the exception taken, but some applications do require this level of identity proofing (scanning your passport in an airline mobile app to book an international flight comes to mind). Edit: Thank you everyone for your feedback, it’s very helpful!

Putting photos of my ID documents online just seems like an incredibly bad move for my security and privacy.

The only time I'd even consider sharing photos of my ID documents over the internet is if I'm sharing them with an organisation I have a multi-year high-trust relationship with (like my e-mail provider of 20 years). And even then, I'd prefer not to if I can avoid it.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#13

Post by Lavery »

watermelon0 wrote: post #9

Where does the need for hard verification of the age come from? My friends and I were using the internet when we were under 13 years old (although not by much), and just clicked the button to confirm that we are older than 13 (mostly on various forums), and later on the same thing with 18 years old verification screens, and we turned out alright (at least from my perspective.)

Probably parents realizing their children were making in-app purchases beyond what they (the parents) were aware of, and charging them back as unauthorized use. The cc processors pass that on to the merchant, and will drop them if there are too many. Likely Roblox just reached some critical mass where they couldn't sustain it any more.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#14

Post by donmcronald »

First off... NOT A FUCKING CHANCE. If a kid came to me with a game that was asking for "opt in" age verification by scanning government ID, and they wanted to do it, we'd have a long talk about privacy and that game would get uninstalled even if it means the end result is the kid crying over it.

Second, how is this going to work? I don't know a single kid that plays Roblox and has a government issued photo ID. And are they REALLY going to roll out a system where they're trying to train minors to scan their ID and submit it to a corporation for something as trivial as a game?

> When a government-issued ID is scanned for verification, an anonymized value is generated, allowing Roblox to safely verify identity without risking exposure of the user’s real identity.

There are two possibilities here:

1. It's absolutely bullshit and they store some portion of uniquely identifiable identity info, like your name + birthdate, somewhere.

2. It's absolutely useless because someone will create a website or app that fools the system by showing fake id and a matching "likeness".

So I don't believe at all the glossed over claims of respecting privacy on this. This is a bad idea and I hope it fails spectacularly.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#15

Post by cinntaile »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

A component of my work is in digital identity, so I hope you don’t mind the question: what would make you comfortable doing so? For Roblox, I can see the exception taken, but some applications do require this level of identity proofing (scanning your passport in an airline mobile app to book an international flight comes to mind). Edit: Thank you everyone for your feedback, it’s very helpful!

Built-in watermark support. When the system eventually gets hacked and the pictures end up in the hands of hackers, their use will be limited due to a "COMPANY + DATE" watermark plastered all over.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#17

Post by scohesc »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

A component of my work is in digital identity, so I hope you don’t mind the question: what would make you comfortable doing so? For Roblox, I can see the exception taken, but some applications do require this level of identity proofing (scanning your passport in an airline mobile app to book an international flight comes to mind). Edit: Thank you everyone for your feedback, it’s very helpful!

(I think) I feel like I'd be similar in opinion about this with the OP, so hopefully you don't mind me putting my thoughts here!

The main issue that I have is that it's down to a matter of trust. I'm mainly using the article on Roblox as an example for my thoughts here, but I'm sure it could be easily translated to other services/companies doing digital ID verification.

I don't like digital identity verification at all however I am open to other options. I have no trust in these identity verification companies using my ID for the sole purpose they say it will be used for. I have no idea if they're holding onto the ID and using it for training their algorithms, or if they sell it to a data collection agency, or if they etc. etc. etc. - why do I need to read a 10+ page privacy policy document to figure that out?

For a company like Roblox - I don't see why they couldn't roll out their own system for digital verification. Yes, you'd have an absolutely massive influx of users at this point since they seem to _just now_ be adding age verification, but after a month or two - barring special events/promos in game - I'm sure an ID Verification department could be handed out to a few people.

That being said - I'm not considering any issues in other aspects like Legal issues, Privacy issues, data retention issues, number of users, numerous ID types etc. etc. etc. and I'm sure those are HUGE factors as to why people aren't "rolling their own" solution.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#18

Post by alex_c »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

A component of my work is in digital identity, so I hope you don’t mind the question: what would make you comfortable doing so? For Roblox, I can see the exception taken, but some applications do require this level of identity proofing (scanning your passport in an airline mobile app to book an international flight comes to mind). Edit: Thank you everyone for your feedback, it’s very helpful!

Nothing would make me comfortable doing so, any more than sharing my bank credentials with a 3rd party for example. The only question is whether the benefit or necessity of doing so outweighs my discomfort.

I think the discomfort is a good thing here.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#20

Post by judge2020 »

donmcronald wrote: post #14

First off... NOT A FUCKING CHANCE. If a kid came to me with a game that was asking for "opt in" age verification by scanning government ID, and they wanted to do it, we'd have a long talk about privacy and that game would get uninstalled even if it means the end result is the kid crying over it. Second, how is this going to work? I don't know a single kid that plays Roblox and has a government issued photo ID. And ar…

> Second, how is this going to work? I don't know a single kid that plays Roblox and has a government issued photo ID.

Chances are their age verification system only applies if you say you’re 18+. I doubt they’re going to throw away players.

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