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Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

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Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#11

Post by gtvwill »

mrlonglong wrote: post #9
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8

Until VirtualBox implements TPM 2.0 pass through, which they've already started working on: https://www.virtualbox.org/changeset/90946/vbox Qemu already supports TPM pass through and secure boot.

I fear that might not be a good thing. Wouldn't it be better and safer to just emulate TPM in the VM?

Errr they want real TPM functionality. Emulation kinda nerfs the whole point of it. It's a hardware key. If you could just emulate it what would stop you spoofing it?

Edit: autocorrect TPM

Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#12

Post by freemint »

mrlonglong wrote: post #9
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8

Until VirtualBox implements TPM 2.0 pass through, which they've already started working on: https://www.virtualbox.org/changeset/90946/vbox Qemu already supports TPM pass through and secure boot.

I fear that might not be a good thing. Wouldn't it be better and safer to just emulate TPM in the VM?

Because that would break TPM or mean adding another chain of trust to the OS verifying TPM which also has problems.

Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#14

Post by murgindrag »

gtvwill wrote: post #11
mrlonglong wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear that might not be a good thing. Wouldn't it be better and safer to just emulate TPM in the VM?

Errr they want real TPM functionality. Emulation kinda nerfs the whole point of it. It's a hardware key. If you could just emulate it what would stop you spoofing it? Edit: autocorrect TPM

Well, modules can be designed to protect my security, or to harm my security (e.g. to enforce DRM). I'm unclear on how "real TPM" functionality helps me. If it helps secure Microsoft, and hurts my security, that's a good reason to not use Windows.

I have not found good docs on what TPM exactly does in Windows 11, but people I trust tell me to distrust it, so I do.

Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#16

Post by azalemeth »

teruakohatu wrote: post #6

Does TPM pass though mean that the virtualized OS knows the identity of the host hardware?

Yes, and I can't help but think this will be used for more draconian DRM. I'm equally sure that soon people will have emulated TPMs that will act as a plug-in too.

Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#17

Post by mindslight »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8

Until VirtualBox implements TPM 2.0 pass through, which they've already started working on: https://www.virtualbox.org/changeset/90946/vbox Qemu already supports TPM pass through and secure boot.

As a QEMU user, why would I ever allow a Windows VM to talk to a real TPM? The entire point of a VM is to isolate Windows in a predictable and secure manner. Giving it access to a unmanageable coprocessor that has been designed to undermine my own interests completely destroys this goal. Hopefully this restriction will simply be cracked in the popular Windows torrents, or better yet some real TPM keys leak for use with emulators. But more likely by the time any application specifically requires Windows 11 to run, Windows will have faded even further into irrelevance.

Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#18

Post by tinus_hn »

gtvwill wrote: post #11
mrlonglong wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear that might not be a good thing. Wouldn't it be better and safer to just emulate TPM in the VM?

Errr they want real TPM functionality. Emulation kinda nerfs the whole point of it. It's a hardware key. If you could just emulate it what would stop you spoofing it? Edit: autocorrect TPM

How would they detect the difference?

Re: Windows 11 is no longer compatible with Oracle VirtualBox VMs

#20

Post by Wowfunhappy »

mrlonglong wrote: post #9
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8

Until VirtualBox implements TPM 2.0 pass through, which they've already started working on: https://www.virtualbox.org/changeset/90946/vbox Qemu already supports TPM pass through and secure boot.

I fear that might not be a good thing. Wouldn't it be better and safer to just emulate TPM in the VM?

It sounds like VMWare agrees with you.

> Unlike VMware, which creates a virtual TPM, VirtualBox's new driver will require a host to have a TPM 2.0 processor for this feature to work.

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