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Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

a-b-street.github.io

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What to you mean, "OSM was fading"? When?

I'm also curious about this. If you look at the number of users, number of edits, etc then openstreetmap looks like it is on a rocket trajectory. More and more corporations are putting significant amounts of energy towards improving openstreetmap as well, drastically improving overall quality.

It's scary to think such a great project could have perished at some point in its infancy. It's not perfect yet but it's an incredible resource and alternative to GMaps.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#12
I am a professional traffic engineer and I build micro-simulation models for most of the projects I am involved with. I can say that compared to software that is used in industry (PTV Vissim, PTV Vistro, and Trafficware Synchro) it looks like A/B is a reasonable toy model that can get pretty close to the real thing. I think it is great that software exists at a level for individuals without huge budgets to be able to build and play around with traffic networks. Automating the intersection setup goes a long way toward this type of tool being accessible to the lay person. All that being said, I think the limitations of any model are important to understand when interpreting the outputs. I can take any model and make traffic flow or decrease the delay per vehicle, that doesn't mean my results are realistic.

Keep up the work, this is an awesome tool and I hope it can get to the point where it can easily help inform people about traffic design and simulation.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this morning I came across new work from the Berlin OSM community: https://supaplexosm.github.io/strassenraumkarte-neukoelln/?m... The end-game isn't in sight. We (data consumers of OSM) are just getting started.

Supaplex did supplement their map with open data from the municipality though for the street outlines as far as I understand (I've asked), so it's not 100% OpenStreetMap data used there. Totally awesome and inspiring nonetheless though.

You can definitely map curbs in OSM if you have high resolution imagery: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:area:highway

Do not expect however mainstream data consumers to support it ;)

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#15
post #12

I am a professional traffic engineer and I build micro-simulation models for most of the projects I am involved with. I can say that compared to software that is used in industry (PTV Vissim, PTV Vistro, and Trafficware Synchro) it looks like A/B is a reasonable toy model that can get pretty close to the real thing. I think it is great that software exists at a level for individuals without huge budgets to be able to…

What kinds of feedback does your profession care about? I am constantly frustrated as a pedestrian with the traffic flow and signal timing problems in my area but I feel like it's pointless to submit a complaint to my local municipality because my anecdotal data points will probably be disregarded.

I'm not very good at nor patient for trying to do neighborhood people organization and go around in circles with City Hall for 5 years (as has been the case with other neighborhood things like park use etc. that I have previously been involved in). But I am tried of losing about 5-6 hours a year to excess wait times at intersections despite trying to avoid the slowest crossings.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#16
post #4

Years back as OSM was fading and the v1.0 of mapbox started rolling out my pedestrian view of the space was that we were seeing the endgame unfold It's insane to see the levels of depth still to plunge - this is incredible documentation and a very cool project PS - I'd upvote twice if I could for incorporate of cthulhu mythos!

Just this morning I came across new work from the Berlin OSM community: https://supaplexosm.github.io/strassenraumkarte-neukoelln/?m... The end-game isn't in sight. We (data consumers of OSM) are just getting started.

That is gorgeous! I want it.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#17
post #12

I am a professional traffic engineer and I build micro-simulation models for most of the projects I am involved with. I can say that compared to software that is used in industry (PTV Vissim, PTV Vistro, and Trafficware Synchro) it looks like A/B is a reasonable toy model that can get pretty close to the real thing. I think it is great that software exists at a level for individuals without huge budgets to be able to…

What kinds of feedback does your profession care about? I am constantly frustrated as a pedestrian with the traffic flow and signal timing problems in my area but I feel like it's pointless to submit a complaint to my local municipality because my anecdotal data points will probably be disregarded. I'm not very good at nor patient for trying to do neighborhood people organization and go around in circles with City Ha…

I've lived a few different places, also working in transportation engineering. I personally care a great deal about accessibility, and would much rather delay cars slightly than pedestrians (for numerous reasons). For example, when reviewing traffic control plans, etc, I always make comments or suggest changes along those lines. But ultimately, it comes down to what the municipality wants to prioritize - unless there are safety issues, it's hard to do more than suggest and push for something better.

If you want to make a difference, making comments (about ongoing projects, particularly) will tend to have more impact. For something more systemic (like light cycles deprioritizing pedestrians), I found the best solution was to move to a better city.

If that's not a solution for you :) then another option you might want to consider is having a meeting with your municipal (or even higher) level elected representative - invite them for a walkthrough of a more problematic space, and try to explain the issues and possible solutions as calmly/rationally as possible. And without attacking car culture directly, as that tends to get people defensive.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#18
post #12

I am a professional traffic engineer and I build micro-simulation models for most of the projects I am involved with. I can say that compared to software that is used in industry (PTV Vissim, PTV Vistro, and Trafficware Synchro) it looks like A/B is a reasonable toy model that can get pretty close to the real thing. I think it is great that software exists at a level for individuals without huge budgets to be able to…

Thank you for the industry insight! I'm definitely not trying to match the degree of realism and calibration with the professional stuff -- there's no way I could, without way more resources. A/B Street's simulation is more for visualization than getting meaningful results -- although I am quite proud of the dataviz we've baked in.

From talking to planners, reaching for these tools is a huge time and money commitment, even assuming they have a license and somebody trained to use it. Some ideas don't even get off the ground, and some projects take community feedback after spending months building the initial models. I think there's a huge missing space for rapid prototyping. The fact that I see planning agencies regularly include graphics from streetmix.net is evidence of this -- it's a quick way to communicate, so often how a conversation starts. I'd simply like to expand that space.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of feedback does your profession care about? I am constantly frustrated as a pedestrian with the traffic flow and signal timing problems in my area but I feel like it's pointless to submit a complaint to my local municipality because my anecdotal data points will probably be disregarded. I'm not very good at nor patient for trying to do neighborhood people organization and go around in circles with City Ha…

I've lived a few different places, also working in transportation engineering. I personally care a great deal about accessibility, and would much rather delay cars slightly than pedestrians (for numerous reasons). For example, when reviewing traffic control plans, etc, I always make comments or suggest changes along those lines. But ultimately, it comes down to what the municipality wants to prioritize - unless there…

Can you or any other traffic engineers here tell me why we find it acceptable that cars are allowed to make unprotected left turns while pedestrians have a walk signal? Right turn on red is bad enough, but unprotected lefts give drivers a direct incentive to torpedo into crossing cyclists / pedestrians, as slowing down would mean a collision with oncoming traffic! Too many intersections in downtown Atlanta, for instance, have no left turn arrow, and I felt constantly in danger.

Re: Transforming OpenStreetMap into thick roads and intersections

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of feedback does your profession care about? I am constantly frustrated as a pedestrian with the traffic flow and signal timing problems in my area but I feel like it's pointless to submit a complaint to my local municipality because my anecdotal data points will probably be disregarded. I'm not very good at nor patient for trying to do neighborhood people organization and go around in circles with City Ha…

I've lived a few different places, also working in transportation engineering. I personally care a great deal about accessibility, and would much rather delay cars slightly than pedestrians (for numerous reasons). For example, when reviewing traffic control plans, etc, I always make comments or suggest changes along those lines. But ultimately, it comes down to what the municipality wants to prioritize - unless there…

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I live near a traffic artery so I've always known there were trade-offs, but the frustration does mount after a while. My #1 beef is when the traffic is paused but you just missed the light change when you hit the ped xing button, and now it's not safe to rely on the light staying green while you dart across.
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