Live data from Hacker News

Turing Oversold?

people.idsia.ch

11–20 of 311 posts

Re: Turing Oversold?

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canon? Isn't Turing being canonised the problem in the first place?

In a fictional universe a medium (book, movie etc.) being "canon" is the original author's seal of approval claiming "this happened". I think this is a joking extrapolation to the real life, and the "author" here is, in best case real life, or as an approximation, historians' position based on evidence.

Correct. That's what I meant.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#12
His cryptographic achievements during WW2 were also vastly oversold. Most of the theoretical breakthroughs needed to crack Enigma were made by Polish mathematicians, but it was more palatable for the British government to put a Brit forward, just as they did for penicillin.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#13
After watching the Imitation Game, I did some googling/trying to find out how the Bombe worked. I expected it to not be very exact, but I also kinda felt like the entire narrative around that history in the industry was just super off!

- The core mechanisms of the machine for running the Enigma "quickly" was from the Polish - The machine wasn't even a generalized computer!

I just felt really misled! Perhaps the biggest thing is Turing probably ended up doing good amounts of contributions to the academic/theoretical side and the practical side, but it feels like we are missing opportunities to describe the confluence of so many people's ideas in this period of history to end up at the current "machines that read instructions and then act upon them in a generalized fashion, very quickly".

This article seems to be that, and it's super intersting

Re: Turing Oversold?

#14
post #12

His cryptographic achievements during WW2 were also vastly oversold. Most of the theoretical breakthroughs needed to crack Enigma were made by Polish mathematicians, but it was more palatable for the British government to put a Brit forward, just as they did for penicillin.

The brits didn't put anyone forward at all, they kept it secret for as long as they could and long after Turing's death.

There is now a memorial at Bletchley Park to the Polish mathematicians who worked on Enigma.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#15
post #8

I feel like it's really weird to call what Gödel was doing computer science.

I feel that computer science is really the wrong word.

It's like calling astronomy "telescopy", to paraphrase Dijkstra.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#16
post #4

There are a lot of true facts thrown in the article, but it does not explore the reason why this is. I feel the era of great thinkers who single handledly performed disruptive breakthroughs in their field, the Galileos and Newtons, was over with the Einstein-era (and even Einstein also stood in the shoulders of giants). No one works in isolation any more, and that is not a bad thing. You can subject any relevant figu…

even Einstein also stood in the shoulders of giants

People have had that perched-on-giants feeling for some time:

This concept has been traced to the 12th century, attributed to Bernard of Chartres. Its most familiar expression in English is by Isaac Newton in 1675: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_g...

Re: Turing Oversold?

#17
post #8

I feel like it's really weird to call what Gödel was doing computer science.

Encoding logical statement into numbers is foundational, but I do see your point. I don't know of any evidence that says that Gödel was interested in automating computation through his encoding.

That being said, I view Gödel's addition to be so mind-blowing that I can't help but privately think of him as the founder.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#18
Having an educational background in physics I find the Turing Machine a much more intuitive model of computation than say lambda calculus. To me this is Turing’s main contribution: linking the abstract world of computation to the physical world, and proving that a very simple physical machine can perform any computation (Turing completeness). That’s no small contribution.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#19
It seems to be in style now to try to tear down the public perception of past great minds, I recently read a similar article about Hawking. And while this article may have some points, I don't think the overall framing is fair.

I think everyone with an interest in theoretical CS should work through Turing's 1936 paper at one point in their life. For me, the important part of that paper is how convincingly it argues that the proposed machine model is not just yet another model of computation, but a complete model of computation: that everything you could reasonably call computation is encompassed by these machines.

So there's a finality to Turing's definition of computation: these problems are unsolvable not just with this model, but with any reasonable machine model. It's very hard to make the same case for lambda calculus, which is (in my opinion) a large part of what made Turing's paper so groundbreaking.

Re: Turing Oversold?

#20

Having an educational background in physics I find the Turing Machine a much more intuitive model of computation than say lambda calculus. To me this is Turing’s main contribution: linking the abstract world of computation to the physical world, and proving that a very simple physical machine can perform any computation (Turing completeness). That’s no small contribution.

> I find the Turing Machine a much more intuitive model of computation than say lambda calculus

I think register machines are more intuitive than Turing machines - they are much closer to how real world computers work.

Post reply on HN