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Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

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Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#11

Post by radicalbyte »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #9
marvin wrote: post #4

It's weird that we have higher late-summer electricity prices that we did mid-winter this year. But all things considered, energy prices do in fact need to be high in order to support faster deployment of renewables and CO2-neutral energy. Sucks for everyone who has marginal incomes, but I'm sure we can make some adjustments to the safety net policies to mitigate that.

> But all things considered, energy prices do in fact need to be high in order to support faster deployment of renewables and CO2-neutral energy. >Sucks for everyone who has marginal incomes, but I'm sure we can make some adjustments to the safety net policies to mitigate that. When people complain about policies that screw the middle class this is exactly the kind of stuff they are talking about. The poors scrape by…

In Germany, consumers pay a significantly higher rate than industry.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#12

Post by PeterisP »

28511524 wrote: post #2

“Options include reserve thermal power plants, battery storage or cables for importing electricity from other markets.” Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer.

Increasing nuclear capacity is a long-term task, it's not possible to do it quickly in response - all the major nuke plants would be already running at capacity most of the time, there's no option for them to just generate more.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#13

Post by alexott »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7
28511524 wrote: post #2

“Options include reserve thermal power plants, battery storage or cables for importing electricity from other markets.” Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer.

> Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer Is anti-nuclear sentiment consistent across Europe?

mostly in Germany...

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#14

Post by HonestOp001 »

Haves and have nots once again. The elites can make proclamations for what they want to do regarding energy generation, they will never have to live it as they will have back up generators on their compounds to deal with it.

Us serfs will be at the mercy of feel good proclamations and energy programs that are not ready for prime time.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#15

Post by Arrath »

croisillon wrote: post #10
Mrdarknezz wrote: post #5

It's time for a nuclear expansion so we can transition out of our fossil dependency.

I read "nuclear explosion" and it took me a few seconds to parse what you were saying

Well, it should result in a net decrease in electricity demand, if nothing else..

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#16

Post by junon »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7
28511524 wrote: post #2

“Options include reserve thermal power plants, battery storage or cables for importing electricity from other markets.” Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer.

> Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer Is anti-nuclear sentiment consistent across Europe?

It is here in Germany. Nobody here likes nuclear. My ex is a PhD in bioinformatics and argues against nuclear using quite outdated information, even.

Nuclear is a non-starter for many. Too many people afraid of another Chernobyl or nuclear waste handling without understanding what caused the former or not being informed about how we deal with the latter, today.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#17

Post by Cycl0ps »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7
28511524 wrote: post #2

“Options include reserve thermal power plants, battery storage or cables for importing electricity from other markets.” Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer.

> Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer Is anti-nuclear sentiment consistent across Europe?

I think it generally depends on whether or not you're downwind of Pripyat.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#18

Post by olau »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7
28511524 wrote: post #2

“Options include reserve thermal power plants, battery storage or cables for importing electricity from other markets.” Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer.

> Or nuclear. Sad that this isn’t seen as an option any longer Is anti-nuclear sentiment consistent across Europe?

I think Fukushima killed much of the remaining enthusiasm, but really it's the high cost of building new nuclear plants across Europe that's keeping it from being an option. If building a new plant was cheap, I'm sure you'd see a lot more happening.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#19

Post by PeterisP »

marvin wrote: post #4

It's weird that we have higher late-summer electricity prices that we did mid-winter this year. But all things considered, energy prices do in fact need to be high in order to support faster deployment of renewables and CO2-neutral energy. Sucks for everyone who has marginal incomes, but I'm sure we can make some adjustments to the safety net policies to mitigate that.

I wouldn't be surprised that if this trend increases and the push comes to shove, then the voters - especially those on marginal incomes - might decide that actually they much prefer lower energy prices instead of supporting renewables and CO2-neutral energy; and in democratic countries it's the general public who are entitled to make that choice for their country instead of accepting the decisions of elites/experts and waiting for safety net policies to compensate for the suck.

I agree that faster deployment of renewables and CO2-neutral energy does require high energy prices - however, it's not my decision to make whether that benefit is so desirable to justify the costs, it's up to the people in each specific country to decide - and taking into account the benefit to them specifically and the costs to them, not the global benefit and someone else's budget. And IMHO governments have not really asked them for a proper informed decision, it all has just-sort-of-happened without informed consent of the masses and they might just refuse that consent if the price rises sufficiently.

In some sense a clean environment and less dangerous future are "luxury goods" that societies and people want to buy if they can afford to, but should not be forced if they can't afford the expense.

Re: Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing

#20

Post by kohlerm »

hmm not sure I can follow the logic. Germany does have quite a lot of wind power doesn't it? Also AFAIK prices in Germany went up because of higher demand for Gas. And then somehow it is expected, as soon as there is a big enough crisis energy prices will go up exponentially.
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