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Record number of environmental activists murdered

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#11

Post by kingkawn »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #8
cenophor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is murder, not people falling off the cliff because of some accidents. There is probably nothing logically wrong with that question, and you are probably right that there is a correlation. But... seriously?

Yes, seriously. Number one failure in sensationalized reporting is base rate fallacy: they point out a high absolute number, implying something strange is going on, whereas usually the denominator - which they neglect to mention - has rose proportionally, meaning there's nothing newsworthy there. I don't mean this is the case here (I'm yet to read the article itself) - but this failure mode in reporting is so common…

Other than the increase in Murder of activists

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#12

Post by adham01 »

The year is 2087, the remaining scientists that weren't hunted down in the previous year, have issued a dire warning that time is running out for action on climate change.

The claim is rebuked again by a conglomerate consisting of Breathing apparatus manufacturers, Sunblock body-paint makers, Subterranean city developers, Biohazard swimsuit makers, Soylent green icecream industries, Nestlé, FEMA holiday camps, and the Corporate Emperor of USA.

The 2088 hunt is scheduled to begin March 1st.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#13

Post by carschno »

kleiba wrote: post #4

I know we're not drawing from a random distribution here, but presumably, the number of environmentalists has also risen dramatically in recent years.

Not a rhetorical question, but genuinely interested: what is your context, given that you are aware that this is not a random distribution?

Of course the number of climate activists has risen, as we see the disastrous effacts of climate change more and more clearly and frequently on a global scale.

We also see a global political movement that has quite effectively prevented measures against climate change, using disinformation and propaganda and, as shown in the article above, deadly violence.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#14

Post by Shacklz »

ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

Are climate activists expected to "take some loss" or what exactly are you implying with this question?

If people die because they engage in non-violent activism it's just wrong, plain and simple, there's no gray area (at least I have a very hard time thinking of one). The overall number of activists or the growth thereof has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#15

Post by cutemonster »

ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

Seems this'd rather be proportional to the number of new logging and mining projects etc, from the article:

> Almost a third of the murders were reportedly linked to resource exploitation - logging, mining, large-scale agribusiness, hydroelectric dams and other infrastructure.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#16

Post by ArchieMaclean »

cenophor wrote: post #7
ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

This is murder, not people falling off the cliff because of some accidents. There is probably nothing logically wrong with that question, and you are probably right that there is a correlation. But... seriously?

Of course we should be doing all we can to prevent murder! It is just always hard to tell with statistics and having a more honest statistic (that, say, shows that murder rates have doubled while number of activists have increased 30%) would be preferable.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#17

Post by Hallucinaut »

_Microft wrote: post #9
kleiba wrote: post #4

I know we're not drawing from a random distribution here, but presumably, the number of environmentalists has also risen dramatically in recent years.

How would that lead to more killings? It is not like activists come with an innate probability to be killed because of their work.

I believe they're arguing there's an "innate probability" for _humans_ to be murdered.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#18

Post by _dain_ »

Shacklz wrote: post #14
ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

Are climate activists expected to "take some loss" or what exactly are you implying with this question? If people die because they engage in non-violent activism it's just wrong, plain and simple, there's no gray area (at least I have a very hard time thinking of one). The overall number of activists or the growth thereof has absolutely nothing to do with that.

it has everything to do with it. if the murder rate remains constant and a group doubles in size, then on average twice as many people in that group will get murdered.

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#19

Post by [deleted] »

Shacklz wrote: post #14
ArchieMaclean wrote: post #3

How does this compare to the growth in the number of environmental activists overall? Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging. Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics

Are climate activists expected to "take some loss" or what exactly are you implying with this question? If people die because they engage in non-violent activism it's just wrong, plain and simple, there's no gray area (at least I have a very hard time thinking of one). The overall number of activists or the growth thereof has absolutely nothing to do with that.

[deleted]

Re: Record number of environmental activists murdered

#20

Post by krageon »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #8
cenophor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is murder, not people falling off the cliff because of some accidents. There is probably nothing logically wrong with that question, and you are probably right that there is a correlation. But... seriously?

Yes, seriously. Number one failure in sensationalized reporting is base rate fallacy: they point out a high absolute number, implying something strange is going on, whereas usually the denominator - which they neglect to mention - has rose proportionally, meaning there's nothing newsworthy there. I don't mean this is the case here (I'm yet to read the article itself) - but this failure mode in reporting is so common…

I get that at some point murder becomes statistics, but I still feel the need to re-emphasize that this is murder. Not more folks getting the flu because there are more folks.
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