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In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

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Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#11

Post by AtlasBarfed »

tarkin2 wrote: post #7
jrochkind1 wrote: post #4

> Chaillan added that DoD remains stuck in the outdated water-agile-fall acquisition processes... Wait what?

I read it as water-agile-fail at first. Made more sense. I think most of my experience with "agile" has been: we'll make a vague plan that came from god-knows-where, you'll do lots of releases, testers will test incrementally, you'll update us once a week, and at the end we'll release it and you'll do it all again when the users tell us they don't like it or (more likely) when management goes on a new whim. It turned…

It would be funny if the DoD is attached to waterfall still.

The entire organizing principle of modern US warfare is as fast and adaptive a battlefield loop as possible for: get information -> adapt strategy -> deliver orders.

I believe it goes back to Napoleon, who basically conquered all of Europe using those principles and superior organization.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#12

Post by [deleted] »

commandlinefan wrote: post #2

> IT is a highly skilled and trained job; staff it as such He's going to be disappointed by the private sector too - I haven't been trained on or even given time to learn anything in at least 20 years. Any learning I (or anybody I've ever worked with) undertake is strictly on personal time only.

[deleted]

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#13

Post by gumby »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #11
tarkin2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it as water-agile-fail at first. Made more sense. I think most of my experience with "agile" has been: we'll make a vague plan that came from god-knows-where, you'll do lots of releases, testers will test incrementally, you'll update us once a week, and at the end we'll release it and you'll do it all again when the users tell us they don't like it or (more likely) when management goes on a new whim. It turned…

It would be funny if the DoD is attached to waterfall still. The entire organizing principle of modern US warfare is as fast and adaptive a battlefield loop as possible for: get information -> adapt strategy -> deliver orders. I believe it goes back to Napoleon, who basically conquered all of Europe using those principles and superior organization.

The whole F-35 is a waterfall project gone horribly, horribly wrong, then eventually shipping without most problems being addressed.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#14

Post by lumost »

Wonnk13 wrote: post #5

> Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. > The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks. That's a ve…

The US Government doesn't believe that inflation exists and also doesn't believe that a software engineer or similar professional should make more than 170k per year in the DC metro (GS-13) with 10+ years of experience.

This is only 15% higher pay than 10 years ago, meanwhile home prices are up 3x in the DC metro area.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#15

Post by ashtonkem »

lumost wrote: post #14
Wonnk13 wrote: post #5

> Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. > The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks. That's a ve…

The US Government doesn't believe that inflation exists and also doesn't believe that a software engineer or similar professional should make more than 170k per year in the DC metro (GS-13) with 10+ years of experience. This is only 15% higher pay than 10 years ago, meanwhile home prices are up 3x in the DC metro area.

Tbf, $170k is also the max that Amazon pays (more or less) in cash. I think the issue here is that the government is overweighting the value of pensions over stock, and underweighting quality of life concerns.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#16

Post by armchairdev »

lumost wrote: post #14
Wonnk13 wrote: post #5

> Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. > The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks. That's a ve…

The US Government doesn't believe that inflation exists and also doesn't believe that a software engineer or similar professional should make more than 170k per year in the DC metro (GS-13) with 10+ years of experience. This is only 15% higher pay than 10 years ago, meanwhile home prices are up 3x in the DC metro area.

A maxed out GS-13 (step 10) runs 130-140k depending on locality, which is new grad range for private sector tech companies. GS-15 hits the 170k threshold, but it’s rare to find technical, non-management roles at that level. (Source: The OPM pay tables for localities are publicly available, and I was a software engineer for a DoD agency for 10 years.)

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#17

Post by jjeaff »

ashtonkem wrote: post #15
lumost wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Government doesn't believe that inflation exists and also doesn't believe that a software engineer or similar professional should make more than 170k per year in the DC metro (GS-13) with 10+ years of experience. This is only 15% higher pay than 10 years ago, meanwhile home prices are up 3x in the DC metro area.

Tbf, $170k is also the max that Amazon pays (more or less) in cash. I think the issue here is that the government is overweighting the value of pensions over stock, and underweighting quality of life concerns.

Are they overweighting pensions? Retirement after that salary would be pretty valuable. Not to mention the security.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#18

Post by mastrsushi »

Wonnk13 wrote: post #5

> Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. > The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks. That's a ve…

Those SCIF buildings try their best to make it seem like a normal office experience with holiday events and food etc.

DoD jobs are ideal for developers who don’t want to learn anything new and just make money. I’d find a lot of guys close to retirement taking up those roles.

It takes someone who is admittedly done. Otherwise it feels no less life sucking than a retail job.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#19

Post by ashtonkem »

jjeaff wrote: post #17
ashtonkem wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf, $170k is also the max that Amazon pays (more or less) in cash. I think the issue here is that the government is overweighting the value of pensions over stock, and underweighting quality of life concerns.

Are they overweighting pensions? Retirement after that salary would be pretty valuable. Not to mention the security.

I guess you can slice it two ways.

1) The expected financial value of a pension. Especially assuming that the millenial in question won’t be willing to tolerate poor quality of life long enough to make it lucrative.

2) Belief that the institution backing the pension will be willing and capable of meeting their obligations in N years.

Personally, I think I’d say that the pension would be close to the value of stock options, but I’d be unwilling to tolerate the crap long enough to actually earn a useful percentage of its theoretical value.

Re: In goodbye message, Chaillan unloads over DoD’s technology culture, processes

#20

Post by ianai »

ashtonkem wrote: post #15
lumost wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Government doesn't believe that inflation exists and also doesn't believe that a software engineer or similar professional should make more than 170k per year in the DC metro (GS-13) with 10+ years of experience. This is only 15% higher pay than 10 years ago, meanwhile home prices are up 3x in the DC metro area.

Tbf, $170k is also the max that Amazon pays (more or less) in cash. I think the issue here is that the government is overweighting the value of pensions over stock, and underweighting quality of life concerns.

Who’s getting pensions in government? I thought they were all 401k now.
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