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Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

musictheory.pugetsound.edu

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#11
post #9

May be it is just me, but I am yet to find a single book of music theory that really starts from the basics. Most pretend to, but start talking about famous clefs and what not, quickly moving on to examples that for the life of me I cannot follow the relevance of. In this book for example, in the basics chapter, he talks about .. oh there are only 7 named notes, so why does piano have 88 keys?.. I really don't think…

I used this book as a gentle theory introduction: https://www.amazon.com/Edlys-Music-Theory-Practical-People/d...

Ideally you'd do this alongside a teacher or someone who knows more so you can bounce questions and applications off of.

There may be better theory books out now, I haven't kept up.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#12

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

I've found it better to consider theory a language to describe musical ideas, but not to impose rules. The "understanding" seems to be a bit more about just being able to name what a thing is, and thereby be able to manipulate it intentionally rather than kind of blindly grasping at musical emotion.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#13
post #12

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

I've found it better to consider theory a language to describe musical ideas, but not to impose rules. The "understanding" seems to be a bit more about just being able to name what a thing is, and thereby be able to manipulate it intentionally rather than kind of blindly grasping at musical emotion.

Thinking of it as a starting conceptual framework is helpful for me. I like to listen to music that seems to stray from those 'rules' all the time, but the more I learn about theory the more I see that what they're doing is quite intentional.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#14
post #9

May be it is just me, but I am yet to find a single book of music theory that really starts from the basics. Most pretend to, but start talking about famous clefs and what not, quickly moving on to examples that for the life of me I cannot follow the relevance of. In this book for example, in the basics chapter, he talks about .. oh there are only 7 named notes, so why does piano have 88 keys?.. I really don't think…

Could you share where you run into issues?

> why does piano have 88 keys?

I'm only ok at music theory, so I might get bits somewhat wrong, but the gist is right.

Notes with wavelengths that are integer multiples/fractions of each other sound the same. 440 Hz sounds similar to 220 Hz and 880 Hz (and this makes sense if you just look at the waveform), so we give them the same name. Western music slices the range between ω and 2ω into 12 points evenly divided along a log scale (we call this an octave). The log scale means the relationship of nearby notes is always the same; it takes an exponentially growing scale (frequency) and makes it linear.

You said 7 have names, but there are 12 notes in an octave. You'll learn more about that difference with scales, but the short answer most western music won't use all 12 notes because, for a given key; a specific subset of 7 sound a lot better together than the others.

88 keys is somewhat arbitrary, and there are pianos with more or less. What's important is how many and which octaves the piano covers.

Why is it called an octave when it has 7 named notes? I guess so we can repeat the first one and drive home the 2ω relationship.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#15
Something seems off here.

1. Cadential six-four chords are only listed briefly under the "figured bass" section. But cadential six-fours are a concept from Roman numeral functional harmony, which is outside the scope of figured bass. (Figured bass only tells what intervals make up the chord-- or in some special circumstances hints about voicing-- but not about how those chords function.)

2. The section on cadences-- which precedes the section on figured bass-- does not treat cadential six-four chords at all, nor AFAICT include any examples of them.

In other words-- this text burrows away a fundamental pattern for ending phrases in tonal music. That makes a special case of most of the endings found in most Christian church hymnals, for example.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#16
post #12

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

I've found it better to consider theory a language to describe musical ideas, but not to impose rules. The "understanding" seems to be a bit more about just being able to name what a thing is, and thereby be able to manipulate it intentionally rather than kind of blindly grasping at musical emotion.

Agreed.

It's like understanding syntax or grammar for a language. Making explicit names, categories, and systems to take apart what you're doing/saying. 99% of the time though people don't think about that, they go by "feel."

But if you can understand the underlying framework, you can also work to intentionally use those to your advantage such as by reinforcing expectations or subverting them in clever ways. Obviously you can also do this by "feel," but an understanding of the underlying mechanics and systems gives you a better framework to spot the points where you can get away with things. When you want to get deeper and push the boundaries of a craft it also helps to understand what "best practices" are in place and why, and then look to exploit them.

I have a friend who was self-taught guitar and a variety of other instruments and only recently started on piano and proper theory. It's been fun watching him recognize and get a framework for why things he's intuitively known, such as how a cadence works or key transitions through a circle of fifths, be brought to the surface explicitly.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#17

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

To me it's more of a time-saver as opposed to an analytical approach. Having a framework saying (for example) "these four chords tend to sound pretty good together and here are some thoughts on what to play over them" allows me to get right at using those tightly-scoped set of sounds in new ways instead of spending a bunch of time noodling around just trying to find tones that mesh well.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#18

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

I listen to a lot of progressive metal/math metal and they basically live and die by music theory. While I am not the most musically educated individual, from my listening experience it allows them to defy the listeners expectations. Without this structure the complexity of their music would be closer to grindcore or something which is more chaotic.

Using music theory they can understand why certain composition works and then use the listeners intuition against them to subvert those expectations while still providing something coherent.

An example is something like Bleed by Meshuggah. Most people assume it uses some complex time signature but I am pretty sure its just 4/4. Periphery will have pieces that sound 4/4 but are actually 6/8s. Basically most time signatures (if not all, idk) are effectively extended 4/4, so they can create a riff that eventually hits the 4/4 your internal clock expects to hear but in between you can't necessarily find the pattern.

But like you said, music theory tells you all the rules so you can break them. It's sort of like any other set of rules. You need to understand why they are there so you can understand the right why to subvert them.

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#19

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

I listen to a lot of progressive metal/math metal and they basically live and die by music theory. While I am not the most musically educated individual, from my listening experience it allows them to defy the listeners expectations. Without this structure the complexity of their music would be closer to grindcore or something which is more chaotic. Using music theory they can understand why certain composition works…

Have you seen Yogev Gabay's analyses of prog metal tunes? He did one on Bleed [1].

He uses the terms "guest" and "host" to describe complex time in the songs he analyses. So in Bleed for example, I think he'd say the "host" was 4/4, but the "guest" is definitely not.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcsAAPdJTBE

Re: Music Theory for the 21st-Century Classroom

#20

I've always had trouble drawing practical benefit from music theory. Once you go beyond simple scales, it always feels like it quickly devolves into "all these different things can also sound good", and every "rule" can also be broken to spice things up. As long as it sounds good. Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory. To be clear, I have seen firs…

I mostly work with pre-classical and classical (pre-romantic) music. For me the utility is mostly about quickly learning and sight-reading music. Quickly getting an idea of phrasing, by seeing where the tension-release should be. Or figuring out how to tune with others in ensembles, when you're not bound by equal temperament (basically anything without piano, organ, guitar).

> Conversely, there appears to often be many ways to "explain" a certain composition in terms of music theory.

Remember that music theory is descriptive, not prescriptive. It's a description of existing musical practice, not a set of rules that say what is right and wrong.

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