The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues • Hacker News Board

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#11

Post by cheinic293 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

CasillasQT wrote: post #6

rvz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everyone knows the whole thing is a joke. The robotaxi race was supposed to be already finished by 2020 alongside with FSD at Level 5 - today it is still Level 2. So, where are the so-called robotaxis?

Did you see the presentation from Karpathy? Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving, which they showed how this can be accomplished. All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build and they have pretty much 0 data except for the ma…

> Did you see the presentation from Karpathy?

Based on the enthusiasm in your comment, you clearly have not owned a Tesla for more than 2 years.

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#12

Post by dragontamer » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

Somehow, I'm reminded of the Tsar tank from WW1. The Russians knew that a new weapon of war: an armored car, was necessary to break the stalemate of trench warfare.

This hypothetical armored car needed many features: the most important was that it must be able to move across the muddy no man's land reliably.

Tests have shown that regular sized wheels would get stuck in the mud. A bigger wheel has more surface area and greater contact area. So the Russians built an armored car with the largest wheels possible. Russian tests were outstanding, the Tsar tank rolled over a tree !!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Tank

The French design was to use caterpillar tracks. We know what works now since we have a century of hindsight.

--------

Spending the most money to make the biggest wheel isn't necessarily the path to victory. I think it's more likely that the tech (aka, caterpillar track equivalent) hasn't been invented yet for robotaxis. Hitting the problem with bigger and more expensive neural network computers doesn't seem to be the right way to solve the problem.

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#13

Post by cheinic293 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

rektide wrote: post #2

some discussion yesterday, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28361807 it's interesting because it's clearly exciting & leading edge tech. unlike most Tesla tech which ultimately has consumers using it, where we all get to assess strengths & weaknesses, this tech is going to remain inside the Tesla castle, unviewable, unassessable. we'll probably never know what real strengths or weaknesses it has, never understand…

> we'll probably never know what real strengths or weaknesses it has, never understand all the ways it doesn't well, or as well as competitors.

Sounds like a classic Elon play:

1. Hype up FSD

2. First time Tesla buyers fork over an additional $10K

3. Keep delaying FSD by a decade

4. Stock keeps going up

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#14

Post by plutonorm » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

CasillasQT wrote: post #6

rvz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everyone knows the whole thing is a joke. The robotaxi race was supposed to be already finished by 2020 alongside with FSD at Level 5 - today it is still Level 2. So, where are the so-called robotaxis?

Did you see the presentation from Karpathy? Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving, which they showed how this can be accomplished. All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build and they have pretty much 0 data except for the ma…

So happy to meet someone else who gets it on hacker news.

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#15

Post by josefx » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

CasillasQT wrote: post #6

rvz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everyone knows the whole thing is a joke. The robotaxi race was supposed to be already finished by 2020 alongside with FSD at Level 5 - today it is still Level 2. So, where are the so-called robotaxis?

Did you see the presentation from Karpathy? Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving, which they showed how this can be accomplished. All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build and they have pretty much 0 data except for the ma…

> with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving

Apparently they have neither as they have missed their deadline three years ago and continue to miss it every year since.

> All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build

Citation needed?

> Tesla may need another 10 years

What has you this pessimistic? Tesla promises full self driving by the end of the year every year. Are you saying a random commenter on the internet knows more about the state of their AI then they do?

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#16

Post by eddanger » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

neolefty wrote: post #8

> This chip is not Tesla designing something that is better than everyone else all by themselves. We are not at the liberty to reveal the name of their partner(s), but the astute readers will know exactly who we are talking about when we reference the external SerDes and photonics IP. Any "astute readers" here who know who the partner would be?

My astute guess is ASML.

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#17

Post by baybal2 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

CasillasQT wrote: post #6

rvz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everyone knows the whole thing is a joke. The robotaxi race was supposed to be already finished by 2020 alongside with FSD at Level 5 - today it is still Level 2. So, where are the so-called robotaxis?

Did you see the presentation from Karpathy? Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving, which they showed how this can be accomplished. All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build and they have pretty much 0 data except for the ma…

> Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving,

No amount of "training" can fix the problem of "AI" not being AI

These people have very poor idea what they are talking about when they say the phrase "artificial intelligence." It's a clear misuse

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#18

Post by alpaca128 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

CasillasQT wrote: post #6

rvz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everyone knows the whole thing is a joke. The robotaxi race was supposed to be already finished by 2020 alongside with FSD at Level 5 - today it is still Level 2. So, where are the so-called robotaxis?

Did you see the presentation from Karpathy? Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving, which they showed how this can be accomplished. All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build and they have pretty much 0 data except for the ma…

> All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build

Comma has been using that approach from the start with a cheap smartphone-like device.

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#19

Post by mlindner » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

eddanger wrote: post #9

CasillasQT wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see the presentation from Karpathy? Tesla goes for a general vision only end-to-end deep AI model that could in theory get rolled out everywhere on earth with enough training and a good approach for fast edge-case solving, which they showed how this can be accomplished. All the other players try to solve this with lidar and cars that cost around 500k to build and they have pretty much 0 data except for the ma…

Folks understand L1 and L5. The levels between are such a blur and mix-match of things that I don't think anything is even accomplished having these levels. I agree with you, from what I have seen Tesla is far ahead and rapidly progressing using the right approach of training NNs while having a human behind the wheel.

The levels are even faulty. They assume that geofencing is required and so geofencing is hard coded into the levels.

Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues

#20

Post by Melkman » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

neolefty wrote: post #8

> This chip is not Tesla designing something that is better than everyone else all by themselves. We are not at the liberty to reveal the name of their partner(s), but the astute readers will know exactly who we are talking about when we reference the external SerDes and photonics IP. Any "astute readers" here who know who the partner would be?

I'd guess Broadcom.See also https://www.broadcom.com/info/optics/silicon-photonics