Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy • Hacker News Board

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#11

Post by slowpoke » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 5:42 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #10

nextparadigms wrote: post #2

Always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy", the people actually making that "copyrighted work" and having to make a living out of it, rather than the opinion of the big corporations.

Always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" Do you mean that sincerely, or do you mean it is always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" when they're equivalent to your perspective on piracy? I make a living selling "copyrighted work", and it determines whether I eat on any given day. I am not a big corporation. I think pirates are value-destroying parasites, and their justifications are self-servin…

Oh dear, where do I start...

First off, stealing.

I don't give a crap how often you and others like you spout this bullshit, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's not stealing. It never was, it never will be. If you are unable to understand the consequences of digital media, that's a pity, but not the fault of the evil, evil pirates.

Second, that's a pretty nice appeal to emotion. Frankly, I don't give half a fuck whether you starve to death. If your business model cannot keep up with technology and you refuse to adapt (or worse, try to fight the change, which is ultimately a losing battle to everyone's detriment, including you), that's your fault. The evil, evil pirates are just a convenient excuse.

Third, if you really /need/ all this bullshit to get people to buy your stuff, then your doing something very, very wrong. Deliver a good product at a reasonable price and people will be happy to pay for it. Stop developing against the evil, evil pirates but instead for your valid costumers.

Fourth, if 'free culture/software' is a 'self-serving proto-philosophy drizzled over gigantic entitlement issues' to you, I can't help but feel sorry for you.

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#12

Post by patio11 » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 5:57 AM UTC

slowpoke wrote: post #11

patio11 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" Do you mean that sincerely, or do you mean it is always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" when they're equivalent to your perspective on piracy? I make a living selling "copyrighted work", and it determines whether I eat on any given day. I am not a big corporation. I think pirates are value-destroying parasites, and their justifications are self-servin…

Oh dear, where do I start... First off, stealing . I don't give a crap how often you and others like you spout this bullshit, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's not stealing. It never was, it never will be. If you are unable to understand the consequences of digital media, that's a pity, but not the fault of the evil, evil pirates. Second, that's a pretty nice appeal to emotion. Frankly, I don't give half a fu…

Hiya Slowpoke. You seem to be new to HN. That's cool. We're very much unlike some other Internet communities which you've spent time on. In particular, we place a wee bit of emphasis on treating people like they are people, even when interacting with them over HTTP.

My name is Patrick. Pleased to meet you. I run a business which helps teach little kids to read, and spend a lot of time on HN as my hobby. A lot of HNers know me, have spoken to me, or have shaken my hand in person, because I'm a fairly personable guy. Most do not say "Hello Patrick, pleased to meet you, I don't give half a fuck whether you starve to death." That would be a wee bit uncouth.

We have guidelines here for the community's consensus on talking to each other: http://ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

I'd also like to leave you with a video from Derek Sivers, who also happens to be a HNer. I think the lesson is rather important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfwwHa-7Ux8

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#13

Post by NickKampe » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 6:50 AM UTC

The music industry we see today is part of a vastly different environment than the music industry we knew only a decade ago. Thanks to the power of the internet as well as the overwhelming availability of music over peer to peer networks, we now have an industry that is terrified of technology, engages in anti-competitive business practices, and that is now starved of capital. Yet despite poor sales, terrible product reviews, and a slew of new online music services, the industry still maintains the very same flawed business model they’d implemented in a time in which their industry was thriving.

On the other hand, the independent music industry has truly benefited from the power of technology. Modern day independent artists now vary in age, aren’t signed to a specific record label, and have the ability to produce, promote, market, as well as manage everything entirely by themselves. Even if the opportunity arises for a musician to begin working with major labels, studios, or corporations it carries with it a number of obligations which often greatly affect the ownership, integrity, and general direction of any project in question. Which partly explains why there’s currently a substantial market of independent musicians, looking to get their name out, that are willing to give their music away at no cost.

For an example on how free music works, look no further than Pretty Lights (http://prettylightsmusic.com) He releases his music at absolutely no cost whatsoever and accepts donations. He does however place his music on iTunes and other marketplaces for people to also purchase if they're unaware it's available for free or want to support the artist. He tours nearly year round and has sold out nearly every one of his shows the last two years.

Ask any musician where a vast majority of the capital they bring in comes from and they'll tell you it's not in the sales of their tracks.

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-mus...

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#14

Post by NickKampe » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 6:54 AM UTC

slowpoke wrote: post #11

patio11 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" Do you mean that sincerely, or do you mean it is always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" when they're equivalent to your perspective on piracy? I make a living selling "copyrighted work", and it determines whether I eat on any given day. I am not a big corporation. I think pirates are value-destroying parasites, and their justifications are self-servin…

Oh dear, where do I start... First off, stealing . I don't give a crap how often you and others like you spout this bullshit, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's not stealing. It never was, it never will be. If you are unable to understand the consequences of digital media, that's a pity, but not the fault of the evil, evil pirates. Second, that's a pretty nice appeal to emotion. Frankly, I don't give half a fu…

You stole the words right out of my mouth.

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#15

Post by saturn » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 11:54 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #12

slowpoke wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh dear, where do I start... First off, stealing . I don't give a crap how often you and others like you spout this bullshit, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's not stealing. It never was, it never will be. If you are unable to understand the consequences of digital media, that's a pity, but not the fault of the evil, evil pirates. Second, that's a pretty nice appeal to emotion. Frankly, I don't give half a fu…

Hiya Slowpoke. You seem to be new to HN. That's cool. We're very much unlike some other Internet communities which you've spent time on. In particular, we place a wee bit of emphasis on treating people like they are people, even when interacting with them over HTTP. My name is Patrick. Pleased to meet you. I run a business which helps teach little kids to read, and spend a lot of time on HN as my hobby. A lot of HNer…

While slowpoke's rudeness is to be deplored, you set yourself up for that. Attempting to tie your survival (ie whether you eat) with a political concept (support, or otherwise, of the current intellectual property regime) is a pretty poor argument. "Either you agree with me, or you want me to starve to death!"

I also don't appreciate the call to some kind of moral high ground - "I run a business which helps teach little kids to read". Yeah yeah. Maybe slowpoke has devoted his life to curing cancer in kittens. Wouldn't make any difference to his argument, either.

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#16

Post by joshuacc » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 12:44 PM UTC

saturn wrote: post #15

patio11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiya Slowpoke. You seem to be new to HN. That's cool. We're very much unlike some other Internet communities which you've spent time on. In particular, we place a wee bit of emphasis on treating people like they are people, even when interacting with them over HTTP. My name is Patrick. Pleased to meet you. I run a business which helps teach little kids to read, and spend a lot of time on HN as my hobby. A lot of HNer…

While slowpoke's rudeness is to be deplored, you set yourself up for that. Attempting to tie your survival (ie whether you eat) with a political concept (support, or otherwise, of the current intellectual property regime) is a pretty poor argument. "Either you agree with me, or you want me to starve to death!" I also don't appreciate the call to some kind of moral high ground - "I run a business which helps teach lit…

"I also don't appreciate the call to some kind of moral high ground ... Wouldn't make any difference to his argument, either."

In fact, the moral standing of participants in an argument does make a difference. It informs us regarding the credibility of their moral judgment. For example, the moral judgment of someone who knocks over convenience stores for a living is probably a wee bit less reliable than the moral judgment of someone who spends his time serving the poor in soup kitchens.

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#17

Post by slowpoke » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 2:55 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #12

slowpoke wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh dear, where do I start... First off, stealing . I don't give a crap how often you and others like you spout this bullshit, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's not stealing. It never was, it never will be. If you are unable to understand the consequences of digital media, that's a pity, but not the fault of the evil, evil pirates. Second, that's a pretty nice appeal to emotion. Frankly, I don't give half a fu…

Hiya Slowpoke. You seem to be new to HN. That's cool. We're very much unlike some other Internet communities which you've spent time on. In particular, we place a wee bit of emphasis on treating people like they are people, even when interacting with them over HTTP. My name is Patrick. Pleased to meet you. I run a business which helps teach little kids to read, and spend a lot of time on HN as my hobby. A lot of HNer…

I'm quite acquainted with the general tenor of HN, thank you. I just don't have much nice words left for people who continue to spout lies, logical fallacies and also insult people to defend their failing business models. Your insults are merely prettily worded (in other words, ad hominem).

I could do that too, I just prefer to speak plain text instead of hiding behind verbosity, calling it 'treating people like people' to appear superior in a discussion.

Also, you haven't even adressed any of my arguments. The only thing I got from you now is even more appeal to emotion ('look what a nice guy I am!') and a change of subject.

Oh, and by the way: I'm usually a nice guy too. Horribly fallacious claims from people defending copyright constitute my beserk button though.

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#18

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 5:02 PM UTC

slowpoke wrote: post #11

patio11 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" Do you mean that sincerely, or do you mean it is always great to see artists' perspective on "piracy" when they're equivalent to your perspective on piracy? I make a living selling "copyrighted work", and it determines whether I eat on any given day. I am not a big corporation. I think pirates are value-destroying parasites, and their justifications are self-servin…

Oh dear, where do I start... First off, stealing . I don't give a crap how often you and others like you spout this bullshit, it doesn't make it any more correct. It's not stealing. It never was, it never will be. If you are unable to understand the consequences of digital media, that's a pity, but not the fault of the evil, evil pirates. Second, that's a pretty nice appeal to emotion. Frankly, I don't give half a fu…

[deleted]

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#19

Post by lotharbot » Tue, Aug 02, 2011, 7:10 PM UTC

slowpoke wrote: post #17

patio11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiya Slowpoke. You seem to be new to HN. That's cool. We're very much unlike some other Internet communities which you've spent time on. In particular, we place a wee bit of emphasis on treating people like they are people, even when interacting with them over HTTP. My name is Patrick. Pleased to meet you. I run a business which helps teach little kids to read, and spend a lot of time on HN as my hobby. A lot of HNer…

I'm quite acquainted with the general tenor of HN, thank you. I just don't have much nice words left for people who continue to spout lies, logical fallacies and also insult people to defend their failing business models. Your insults are merely prettily worded (in other words, ad hominem). I could do that too, I just prefer to speak plain text instead of hiding behind verbosity, calling it 'treating people like peop…

> "I'm quite acquainted with the general tenor of HN"

Either you are less aware than you believe, or you choose to violate our community standards anyway.

Whichever it is, I encourage you to adjust your behavior. Your "beserk button" does not need to be on display here.

Re: Bassnectar responds regarding music piracy

#20

Post by saturn » Wed, Aug 03, 2011, 3:15 PM UTC

joshuacc wrote: post #16

saturn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While slowpoke's rudeness is to be deplored, you set yourself up for that. Attempting to tie your survival (ie whether you eat) with a political concept (support, or otherwise, of the current intellectual property regime) is a pretty poor argument. "Either you agree with me, or you want me to starve to death!" I also don't appreciate the call to some kind of moral high ground - "I run a business which helps teach lit…

"I also don't appreciate the call to some kind of moral high ground ... Wouldn't make any difference to his argument, either." In fact, the moral standing of participants in an argument does make a difference. It informs us regarding the credibility of their moral judgment. For example, the moral judgment of someone who knocks over convenience stores for a living is probably a wee bit less reliable than the moral jud…

Well, at the risk of further downvotes, I think that's totally irrelevant. No-one is down at the soup kitchen asking what the volunteers have to say about intellectual property reform. It is a complicated topic and the personal altruism of the person making the argument has basically nothing to do with anything.