Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE • Hacker News Board

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#11

Post by ducktective » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote: post #4

Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+ memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?

They support native USB and ESP32 doesn't have that.

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#12

Post by ducktective » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #8

Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote: post #4

Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+ memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?

Not nitpicky at all. Some ideas. 1. I believe that there are some microcontrollers that have irreversible settings, such as a setting to permanently disable writing to flash memory. Is the ESP32 such a processor? If so, maybe they want to have WiFi on a coprocessor that they can write protect so that they can get certification to sell their modules in jurisdictions that require that WiFi has protections against peopl…

1- AFAIK, Espressif uses closed binary blob for WiFi so the channels could not be tampered with. Still, they need FCC regulation for their whole product in some jurisdictions.

4- I don't think any kind of crypto could be reasonably mined on these MCUs.

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#13

Post by Huwyt_Nashi_064 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #8

Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote: post #4

Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+ memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?

Not nitpicky at all. Some ideas. 1. I believe that there are some microcontrollers that have irreversible settings, such as a setting to permanently disable writing to flash memory. Is the ESP32 such a processor? If so, maybe they want to have WiFi on a coprocessor that they can write protect so that they can get certification to sell their modules in jurisdictions that require that WiFi has protections against peopl…

Also 1. Development boards like this do not require certification afaik. Reason being that there are far too many variables in its operation (it is designed to be reprogrammed; users may do anything from completely disabling RF to abusing it in some extremely non-compliant way) and implementation (enclosure can be significant; not so relevant here but in many cases the antenna itself must be installed or can be altered by the end user) for certification to be of any use.

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#14

Post by ksaj » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

ducktective wrote: post #12

tzs wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nitpicky at all. Some ideas. 1. I believe that there are some microcontrollers that have irreversible settings, such as a setting to permanently disable writing to flash memory. Is the ESP32 such a processor? If so, maybe they want to have WiFi on a coprocessor that they can write protect so that they can get certification to sell their modules in jurisdictions that require that WiFi has protections against peopl…

1- AFAIK, Espressif uses closed binary blob for WiFi so the channels could not be tampered with. Still, they need FCC regulation for their whole product in some jurisdictions. 4- I don't think any kind of crypto could be reasonably mined on these MCUs.

Wouldn't changing the locale settings defeat 1-?

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#15

Post by irq-1 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

OisinMcGrath wrote: post #6

Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote: post #4

Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+ memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?

Hi! I am actually directly involved with Pocuter. Amazing to see it posted here! The ESP32 alone doesn't have enough pins to handle all of the features of the Pocuter, so the SAMD21 was selected as the main MCU to supplement this. We are looking in to upgrading to the ESP32-C3 in the near future.

The security features on the ESP32-C3 are great!

> Secure Boot, Flash Encryption, Digital Signature and HMAC Peripheral, Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) / DRM

That could open up new use cases. Strange its RSA only (no ECC).

https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32_C3?0

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#16

Post by spicybright » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

Does this actually exist? I'm weary of kickstarters.

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#17

Post by bitwize » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

"Micro computer". There's a phrase I haven't heard in a while. Back in the day it referred to computers the size of my desktop.

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#18

Post by ducktective » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

ksaj wrote: post #14

ducktective wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1- AFAIK, Espressif uses closed binary blob for WiFi so the channels could not be tampered with. Still, they need FCC regulation for their whole product in some jurisdictions. 4- I don't think any kind of crypto could be reasonably mined on these MCUs.

Wouldn't changing the locale settings defeat 1-?

locale? If you mean some config, I think the binary blob should handle WiFi protocol to the spec (BTW, It's a freeRTOS application IIRC)

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#19

Post by bitwize » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote: post #4

Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+ memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?

A lot of powerful computers were built by bunging in a powerful CPU, perhaps with extra RAM, as a coprocessor to an already-existing weak computer, whose weak CPU then serves as a sort of front end processor, or FEP. An example is the Tandy Model 16, which was the second line of desktop Unix workstations ever released (and arguably the first affordable one, for multi-kilobuck values of "affordable"). It was basically a Tandy Model II Z80-based computer with a daughtercard carrying a 68000 processor and up to 512 KiB of RAM. The 68000 actually ran the Unix (Microsoft Xenix), and delegated I/O to the various peripherals to the Z80.

Re: Pocuter – A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE

#20

Post by OisinMcGrath » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

spicybright wrote: post #16

Does this actually exist? I'm weary of kickstarters.

It sure does! I am directly involved with Pocuter. We are already organizing production for backer fulfillment. We'd like to upgrade to the ESP32-C3 since it isn't as affected by the chip shortage as the SAMD21 and ESP32 are (and offers more favorable performance/security)