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Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

theguardian.com

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Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#11

Post by choeger »

guerrilla wrote: post #6
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #3

I urge anyone touched by this to learn about the prison abolition movement. My favorite thinker on the matter is Angela Davis. She was wrongly imprisoned for over a year in the 1971-1972 which called attention to political prisoners the world over. After a global call for her release she was acquitted of the charges and released. She became a college professor and a prolific author, and is still today a highly respec…

Don't forget her book "Are Prisons Obsolete?" https://www.amazon.com/Are-Prisons-Obsolete-Angela-Davis/dp/...

Simple answer, no they are not. There are people that need to be locked up to protect society. Think Breivik, or the psychopaths that eradicate whole families for their perverted pleasure.

That being said, prisons as a punishment seem to scale very badly. I think that a prison sentence up to maybe a year or so is a very effective deterrent against crimes like tax evasion, theft, fraud, or domestic violence (if it is charged, that is). But beyond that, it seems to stop working.

So the question is: Do we want to give up on the punishment part? Do we want to introduce even more draconian measures?

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#12

Post by rainworld »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #3

I urge anyone touched by this to learn about the prison abolition movement. My favorite thinker on the matter is Angela Davis. She was wrongly imprisoned for over a year in the 1971-1972 which called attention to political prisoners the world over. After a global call for her release she was acquitted of the charges and released. She became a college professor and a prolific author, and is still today a highly respec…

The very same Angela Davis who on 8/5/1970 bought the shotgun that was used to blow Judge Harold Haley's head off two days later?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3UiyuqVUAE816j?format=jpg

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#13

Post by guerrilla »

choeger wrote: post #11
guerrilla wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget her book "Are Prisons Obsolete?" https://www.amazon.com/Are-Prisons-Obsolete-Angela-Davis/dp/...

Simple answer, no they are not. There are people that need to be locked up to protect society. Think Breivik, or the psychopaths that eradicate whole families for their perverted pleasure. That being said, prisons as a punishment seem to scale very badly. I think that a prison sentence up to maybe a year or so is a very effective deterrent against crimes like tax evasion, theft, fraud, or domestic violence (if it is…

> So the question is: Do we want to give up on the punishment part? Do we want to introduce even more draconian measures?

If you read the book then you'd know that's what it's about. The title is written under the premise that prisons without punishment (and all their other negative qualities) are not prisons. It's a critique of prisons in the real world, not some abstract idea of prisons.

The book's actually online [1] if $6.68 is too much.

1. https://collectiveliberation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/...

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#14

Post by transitory_pce »

throwawaygimp wrote: post #9

UBI + health (and other calamity) insurance for all. A strong public mental health system. Prescription drugs of every kind, heroin, meth, whatever. With the right counselling and support attached. I might be an idiot but pretty sure most crime will just go away, then we can spend proper resources to help and support (and punish when needed) the few offenders who really struggle to stay within the rules of society. T…

> There are a few genuinely 'bad people' out there

Do you want to count the number of violent rapes by year? Violent premeditated murders? Lets add violent robbery and assault by people have food and a place to stay, but are looking to level up and buy shiny things?

This is not a circumstance, and there are many 'bad people' out there.

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#15

Post by bserge »

choeger wrote: post #11
guerrilla wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget her book "Are Prisons Obsolete?" https://www.amazon.com/Are-Prisons-Obsolete-Angela-Davis/dp/...

Simple answer, no they are not. There are people that need to be locked up to protect society. Think Breivik, or the psychopaths that eradicate whole families for their perverted pleasure. That being said, prisons as a punishment seem to scale very badly. I think that a prison sentence up to maybe a year or so is a very effective deterrent against crimes like tax evasion, theft, fraud, or domestic violence (if it is…

For those kinds of people, why not death? Quick and easy.

Somehow keeping them in solitary like absolute animals is more humane?

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#16

Post by bserge »

throwawaygimp wrote: post #9

UBI + health (and other calamity) insurance for all. A strong public mental health system. Prescription drugs of every kind, heroin, meth, whatever. With the right counselling and support attached. I might be an idiot but pretty sure most crime will just go away, then we can spend proper resources to help and support (and punish when needed) the few offenders who really struggle to stay within the rules of society. T…

If only.

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#17

Post by guerrilla »

rainworld wrote: post #12
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #3

I urge anyone touched by this to learn about the prison abolition movement. My favorite thinker on the matter is Angela Davis. She was wrongly imprisoned for over a year in the 1971-1972 which called attention to political prisoners the world over. After a global call for her release she was acquitted of the charges and released. She became a college professor and a prolific author, and is still today a highly respec…

The very same Angela Davis who on 8/5/1970 bought the shotgun that was used to blow Judge Harold Haley's head off two days later? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3UiyuqVUAE816j?format=jpg

She maintained her innocence and was eventually found not guilty on all counts.

> A defense motion for a change of venue was granted, and the trial was moved to Santa Clara County. On June 4, 1972, after 13 hours of deliberations, the all-white jury returned a verdict of not guilty. The fact that she owned the guns used in the crime was judged insufficient to establish her role in the plot.

John Lennon and Yoko Ono in support of her though. [1]

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBpcm-DtN0Q

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#18

Post by throwawaygimp »

transitory_pce wrote: post #14
throwawaygimp wrote: post #9

UBI + health (and other calamity) insurance for all. A strong public mental health system. Prescription drugs of every kind, heroin, meth, whatever. With the right counselling and support attached. I might be an idiot but pretty sure most crime will just go away, then we can spend proper resources to help and support (and punish when needed) the few offenders who really struggle to stay within the rules of society. T…

> There are a few genuinely 'bad people' out there Do you want to count the number of violent rapes by year? Violent premeditated murders? Lets add violent robbery and assault by people have food and a place to stay, but are looking to level up and buy shiny things? This is not a circumstance, and there are many 'bad people' out there.

How about a legal and regulated sex industry.

I live in a country with next to no violent premeditated murders, next to no violent robbery. And a LOT of very poor people. But there is a public social safety net which you can't fall below. So no one is ever really desperate.

I understand if you're based in the US why you think this way, but it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#19

Post by anovikov »

transitory_pce wrote: post #14
throwawaygimp wrote: post #9

UBI + health (and other calamity) insurance for all. A strong public mental health system. Prescription drugs of every kind, heroin, meth, whatever. With the right counselling and support attached. I might be an idiot but pretty sure most crime will just go away, then we can spend proper resources to help and support (and punish when needed) the few offenders who really struggle to stay within the rules of society. T…

> There are a few genuinely 'bad people' out there Do you want to count the number of violent rapes by year? Violent premeditated murders? Lets add violent robbery and assault by people have food and a place to stay, but are looking to level up and buy shiny things? This is not a circumstance, and there are many 'bad people' out there.

Most of these are mental health issues. ESPECIALLY violent rape. Really every cop will tell you that vast majority of crime is not committed by some cold-blooded, well-planning, career criminals - but by mentally unstable or sick people and/or people suffering from addictions, that do ridiculous things being clearly out of sane mind. Sadly, psychiatry is really in its infancy and its success record at both diagnosis and treatment plain out sucks.

Re: Experience: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#20

Post by benrbray »

transitory_pce wrote: post #14
throwawaygimp wrote: post #9

UBI + health (and other calamity) insurance for all. A strong public mental health system. Prescription drugs of every kind, heroin, meth, whatever. With the right counselling and support attached. I might be an idiot but pretty sure most crime will just go away, then we can spend proper resources to help and support (and punish when needed) the few offenders who really struggle to stay within the rules of society. T…

> There are a few genuinely 'bad people' out there Do you want to count the number of violent rapes by year? Violent premeditated murders? Lets add violent robbery and assault by people have food and a place to stay, but are looking to level up and buy shiny things? This is not a circumstance, and there are many 'bad people' out there.

My own feeling is that many of these people were not born evil, but their life circumstances as children (e.g. extreme poverty or abuse by family members) set them on a bad trajectory that's quite hard to correct for in adulthood.

I think giving every child a stable home life will go a long way in reducing crime. Of course some people will slip through the cracks. But I'm in agreement with OP that the number is quite small compared to the number of people currently incarcerated.

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