We are no longer a serious people • Hacker News Board

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#11

Post by dataflow » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

Overton-Window wrote: post #10

dataflow wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the administration mispredicted something that was presumably obvious. You'd think the blog post about having serious discussions could actually explain that and attempt to have a serious discussion around it instead of mischaracterizing the interview and ignoring the content.

Misprediction? They are simultaneously surveilling everyone in the world and are getting nothing out of it. Confident statements from the administration are no longer worth a dime.

If they're not worth a dime then don't mention them at all. If they're worth something then they need to be discussed "seriously", as the blog post itself preaches. Not mischaracterized, and not used to mislead readers about their contents. All the arguing you're doing needs to be in the blog post, not here.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#12

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

flunhat wrote: post #9

Overton-Window wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blinken on July 7: “We are staying, the embassy is staying, our programs are staying. If there is a significant deterioration in security...I don’t think it’s going to be something that happens from a Friday to a Monday.” https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1427314149319643139

Here's the part you cut out with the ellipsis: > "If there is a significant deterioration in security -- that could well happen, we've discussed this before -- I don’t think it’s going to be something that happens from a Friday to a Monday."

[deleted]

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#13

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #3

Can someone explain to me the partisan tilt this coverage has had? Both parties seem to have wanted to get out of Afghanistan and this past few weeks is (at least per my understanding) the culmination of the plan the Trump administration had put into motion (signing the peace treaty with the Taliban, releasing their prisoners, etc). Is there something specific the Biden administration bungled? What would a better pla…

Same reason Clinton was blamed for NAFTA even though it was a GOP initiative that Bush was ready to sign but they delayed because it gave them political ammunition if the bill landed on the new guy's desk.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#14

Post by MR4D » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

There are 26 days before the 20th anniversary of 9/11. I expect the volume of frustration and anger with us politics on this war to increase substantially over that time.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#15

Post by AtlasBarfed » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

droptablemain wrote: post #4

Death toll of the formerly perpetual occupation of Afghanistan: American military members: 2,448 U.S. contractors: 3,846 Afghan military/police: 66,000 Other allied troops: 1,144 Afghan civilians: 47,245 Taliban/opposition fighters: 51,191 Aid workers: 444 Journalists: 72 src: https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-08-14/cos...

Remember that it used to be that casualties, being deaths and injuries, used to be about 1:1. Since body armor and the like the amount of injured is 10x the deaths, and conveniently accounting of casualties by the government in media changed to deaths to make casualties seem much lighter than they were.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#16

Post by eucryphia » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

This comment:

The insane thing here: the _financial_ cost of the war in afghanistan, which lasted deacdes and involved hundreds of thousands of people, and logistical operations spanning the globe, is less than the amount of money we printed in 2020.

https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-did-war-afghanistan-cost-1...

Talk about 'reality being optional' - in the financial markets, it still very much is optional

https://www.thepullrequest.com/p/we-are-no-longer-a-serious-...

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#17

Post by kokken » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

I thought the most interesting part of the text was unrelated to the war: "American society(...) can only understand the world as projections of the country’s own domestic neuroses. (...) Who is the PoC? Who is the Nazi?"

I've recently realized how much of the discourse around the word HAS to be trapped within terms the Americans can understand. Every experience that is not translated to Americana is 'confusing' or 'irrelevant'. Much like the Author himself points, the progressive wing of the Democratic Party has no idea what to say about a victory of an extremist group against the American Military-Industrial complex to the loss of minorities who themselves hate or dislike American progressivism.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#18

Post by plankers » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

dataflow wrote: post #6

Hard to take this post seriously when it completely dismisses the substance of Blinken's responses as "a deer-in-the-headlights stare and canned remarks" without spending 2 seconds explaining what they even were. Blinken explained their rationales very calmly and clearly in that video, whether we like with them or not. That deserves consideration, and, if the rationale is wrong, a substantive rebuttal. Not a backhand…

So you're refusing to take seriously a post that accuses you of not being serious?

The irony is nearly overwhelming.

P.S. He linked to a twitter thread that proffered all of Blinken's remarks on Tapper's program.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#19

Post by djkivi » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #3

Can someone explain to me the partisan tilt this coverage has had? Both parties seem to have wanted to get out of Afghanistan and this past few weeks is (at least per my understanding) the culmination of the plan the Trump administration had put into motion (signing the peace treaty with the Taliban, releasing their prisoners, etc). Is there something specific the Biden administration bungled? What would a better pla…

I doubt Biden intended for Afghanis to be hanging on US airplanes as they took off from Kabul.

Re: We are no longer a serious people

#20

Post by mikecoles » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:52 AM UTC

djkivi wrote: post #19

vlovich123 wrote: post #3

Can someone explain to me the partisan tilt this coverage has had? Both parties seem to have wanted to get out of Afghanistan and this past few weeks is (at least per my understanding) the culmination of the plan the Trump administration had put into motion (signing the peace treaty with the Taliban, releasing their prisoners, etc). Is there something specific the Biden administration bungled? What would a better pla…

I doubt Biden intended for Afghanis to be hanging on US airplanes as they took off from Kabul.

He would've have been aware of the conditions that would have led to such activities.