Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 25 posts

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#11

Post by Goety »

dimator wrote: post #9
Goety wrote: post #2

This is the kind of thing that could force a president to resign.

I highly doubt that. I think in most Americans' minds Afghanistan has been an abject failure for years. It has not been among the main talking points of this administration or the one before it. I believe most Americans will just be relieved it's done, and won't care what happens there next.

Afghanistan intervention has been popular in America. What hasn't been popular is the plan and execution of the intervention. This will continue to be the case.

To add to this administrative insult, US relationship with the collapsing Afghanistan government was ended in the most humiliating way. The collapse was not inevitable.

The US public should not stand for this.

The current mood of the US is that the public does not know what the current administration is doing domestically and abroad. Outside of a few identified 'throw money at a problem' bills the administration is not popular outside of 'at least it is not Trump'.

Vision is lacking and the US cannot legislate out of core structural problems and from this there was improper use of authority by multiple government branches. I do not think congress should have neutered presidential war authority. The US needs better stewardship by every branch and to go back to operating government like intended.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#12

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Goety wrote: post #2

This is the kind of thing that could force a president to resign.

Nobody on the left wanted to be involved in Afghanistan in the first place, and the continuation of Trumpian isolationism means that few on the right want anything to do with it either.

It's going to be seen as ultimately regrettable, but people of that region have long showed that their idea of what government is and should be doesn't mesh with our own.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#13

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Goety wrote: post #11
dimator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that. I think in most Americans' minds Afghanistan has been an abject failure for years. It has not been among the main talking points of this administration or the one before it. I believe most Americans will just be relieved it's done, and won't care what happens there next.

Afghanistan intervention has been popular in America. What hasn't been popular is the plan and execution of the intervention. This will continue to be the case. To add to this administrative insult, US relationship with the collapsing Afghanistan government was ended in the most humiliating way. The collapse was not inevitable. The US public should not stand for this. The current mood of the US is that the public doe…

Afghanistan intervention was only popular when it was about getting "revenge" for 9/11. We've wasted a generation's worth of wealth on that place.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#15

Post by Goety »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #13
Goety wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan intervention has been popular in America. What hasn't been popular is the plan and execution of the intervention. This will continue to be the case. To add to this administrative insult, US relationship with the collapsing Afghanistan government was ended in the most humiliating way. The collapse was not inevitable. The US public should not stand for this. The current mood of the US is that the public doe…

Afghanistan intervention was only popular when it was about getting "revenge" for 9/11. We've wasted a generation's worth of wealth on that place.

I think you're a little off the mark on that one. There is widespread support against demonstrable human rights abusers, particularly with marginalization of women.

The current Taliban have a very good PR person, presenting themselves as moderate. Their actions since the February 2020 agreements have been seen, and opinions have been formed.

If I were a betting man I'd say that they would pay telecom censors top dollar to prevent a further ruffling of feathers of the US public.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#16

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Goety wrote: post #15
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan intervention was only popular when it was about getting "revenge" for 9/11. We've wasted a generation's worth of wealth on that place.

I think you're a little off the mark on that one. There is widespread support against demonstrable human rights abusers, particularly with marginalization of women. The current Taliban have a very good PR person, presenting themselves as moderate. Their actions since the February 2020 agreements have been seen, and opinions have been formed. If I were a betting man I'd say that they would pay telecom censors top doll…

Sure there's widespread support. There's widespread support for a lot of things that people don't want to fund indefinitely.

It doesn't mean that there isn't also widespread support for ending indefinite funding to lost causes.

Of the two, the former is far more likely than the latter to move the needle when it is time for people to vote for political candidates.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#17

Post by Goety »

awnird wrote: post #14
Goety wrote: post #2

This is the kind of thing that could force a president to resign.

America has been losing wars for most of my life and no one has resigned. Why is this one any different?

In a few words this is (very likely) permanent.

America hasn't so much lost a war but failed to maintain a coherent political vision.

This has enormous world shaking geopolitical implications that will continue to create a disadvantage to US interests.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#18

Post by Wowfunhappy »

My feeling is that we tried. We tried for 20 years. It didn't work.

At some point, you have to throw in the towel and cut your losses—even when those losses are really, unimaginably terrible. 20 years is certainly past that point.

There's a lot of good we could do in the world with the resources we put into Afghanistan.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#19

Post by Tycho »

The most striking thing to me is the incoherence. It’s as if a bunch of sprawling, unaccountable bureaucracies —- the White House, the Pentagon, the CIA, the State Department, Congress, the DNC, the MIC —- were prosecuting essentially independent agendas that could co-exist under the fog of a forever war, but someone accidentally triggered the exit routine and rather than graceful closure you see the incoherent stuttering of a bunch of zombie processes.

Re: An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

#20

Post by barelysapient »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #18

My feeling is that we tried. We tried for 20 years. It didn't work. At some point, you have to throw in the towel and cut your losses—even when those losses are really, unimaginably terrible. 20 years is certainly past that point. There's a lot of good we could do in the world with the resources we put into Afghanistan.

Completely agree.

The problem is the population never owned the country. They didn't liberate themselves. And they're at home as conquered populace.

Someday the west will learn that Democracy can't be "gifted". People have to want it. People have to fight and die for it. And then, and only then, maybe, you'll get democracy.

The only chance that women in the article will see any freedom again, is if she take up arms start shooting the people who say "you can't".

Post reply on HN