Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told • Hacker News Board

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#11

Post by HarryHirsch » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

Mattasher wrote: post #8

HarryHirsch wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be real: what helps the virus is politicians (actually commercial landlords, the politicians are just the mouthpiece) wanting to go back to normal. Proper public messaging would insist on continued social distancing instead of going back to schools and offices in the fall.

Sweden "went back to normal" a long time ago. Their Covid deaths rate is near zero. The "it's bad so we need to x" reflex, where x is any of masking mandates, social distancing, or especially take kids out of school, is anti-science and anti-human.

White exurban Atlanta (Randolph County) went back to normal as well, and now they are closing school because of a covid outbreak. I guess there isn't yet enough Delta variant in Sweden to make a difference. That, or the Swedish practice adequate mitigation (social distancing and masking).

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#12

Post by jhayward » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

newbamboo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The economic aspect has figured into calculations but there’s been no transparency around that fact. The news media are the worst in this regard. For those of us with very high risk loved ones who refuse to accept any facts that aren’t broadcast in full force through the usual dumbed down news outlets which I won’t name directly, it’s been a horrifyingly stressful month.

the usual dumbed down news outlets You mean NPR where recently Atul Gawande was calling the pandemic a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and urged everyone to take the vaccine? He's right in a way, being vaccinated keeps you out of hospital, but it won't prevent you that much from catching the disease and developing post-covid syndrome. And you can still spread the virus in your community.

> He's right in a way, being vaccinated keeps you out of hospital, but it won't prevent you that much from catching the disease and developing post-covid syndrome

This is misinformation.

From the data we have available, vaccination prevents at least 80% of symptomatic infections with the Delta variant.

To characterize an 80% reduction in risk as “not that much” is simply trying to get people to give up on vaccines.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#13

Post by joezydeco » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #2

If the jab mitigates the symptoms but the (unaware) carrier can still transmit the virus to others, then doesn't that help the virus? It doesn't stop it, it gives it cover, a disguise.

I agree. I have both Moderna doses and finished 13 weeks ago. I just came out of isolation after contracting Delta 12 days ago. It felt like a head cold and was done in 3 days.

But the local health board said that my vaxxed family members were free to leave the house and go in public right away as long as they didn't have symptoms.

But you're also possibly contagious for 24-48 hours before symptoms. The logic here is really confusing.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#14

Post by HarryHirsch » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

jhayward wrote: post #12

HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the usual dumbed down news outlets You mean NPR where recently Atul Gawande was calling the pandemic a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and urged everyone to take the vaccine? He's right in a way, being vaccinated keeps you out of hospital, but it won't prevent you that much from catching the disease and developing post-covid syndrome. And you can still spread the virus in your community.

> He's right in a way, being vaccinated keeps you out of hospital, but it won't prevent you that much from catching the disease and developing post-covid syndrome This is misinformation. From the data we have available, vaccination prevents at least 80% of symptomatic infections with the Delta variant. To characterize an 80% reduction in risk as “not that much” is simply trying to get people to give up on vaccines.

You see papers claiming an effectiveness against symptomatic infection against Delta of ~ 50 %, and the rise of cases in Israel as well as the Provincetown outbreak should really make us concerned.

The vaccine still prevents hospitalization and death, so that's reason enough to take it. But on its own it isn't enough to get R_0 below 1. The way everyone is behaving, they are asking for outbreak after outbreak.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#15

Post by voakbasda » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

Eldt wrote: post #10

Mattasher wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden "went back to normal" a long time ago. Their Covid deaths rate is near zero. The "it's bad so we need to x" reflex, where x is any of masking mandates, social distancing, or especially take kids out of school, is anti-science and anti-human.

Didn't Sweden have a lot more deaths than their neighbours?

Small price to pay for herd immunity and normalcy, if it actually worked.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#16

Post by NonContro » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

randomopining wrote: post #6

Everybody should get vaccinated and then get it now. The current Delta is close enough to the OG version that your body can crush it and then get a stronger immunity towards the future lineage of the virus. If you stay in a bubble, by this winter there will be a variant that almost completely evades the vaccines and then you're back to square one. Basically we should be continuously getting immunity against the newes…

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines.

If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury?

Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes?

The CDC estimates about 110 million Americans have had COVID already. Why should they be vaccinated? Why not 'donate' the doses that would be have been used on them to other countries, to help people who have not been previously infected?

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#17

Post by voakbasda » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #13

chiefalchemist wrote: post #2

If the jab mitigates the symptoms but the (unaware) carrier can still transmit the virus to others, then doesn't that help the virus? It doesn't stop it, it gives it cover, a disguise.

I agree. I have both Moderna doses and finished 13 weeks ago. I just came out of isolation after contracting Delta 12 days ago. It felt like a head cold and was done in 3 days. But the local health board said that my vaxxed family members were free to leave the house and go in public right away as long as they didn't have symptoms . But you're also possibly contagious for 24-48 hours before symptoms. The logic here i…

The conflicting information derives from political decision making, not scientific reason. Not confusing at all from that perspective.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#18

Post by hellified » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

Mattasher wrote: post #8

HarryHirsch wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be real: what helps the virus is politicians (actually commercial landlords, the politicians are just the mouthpiece) wanting to go back to normal. Proper public messaging would insist on continued social distancing instead of going back to schools and offices in the fall.

Sweden "went back to normal" a long time ago. Their Covid deaths rate is near zero. The "it's bad so we need to x" reflex, where x is any of masking mandates, social distancing, or especially take kids out of school, is anti-science and anti-human.

I'm living in Sweden right now (US citizen). We wear masks. I've been working from home at my employer's request for over a year now. Office buildings are pretty empty, restaurants are still mostly depending on takeout revenue. Our vaccination rate is higher than in the US, and we're still being sensibly cautious to prevent another wave. Sweden isn't the free-for-all zone you've been led to believe.

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#19

Post by deegles » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

NonContro wrote: post #16

randomopining wrote: post #6

Everybody should get vaccinated and then get it now. The current Delta is close enough to the OG version that your body can crush it and then get a stronger immunity towards the future lineage of the virus. If you stay in a bubble, by this winter there will be a variant that almost completely evades the vaccines and then you're back to square one. Basically we should be continuously getting immunity against the newes…

Why should people with natural immunity from previous exposure get it? Natural immunity provides broader protection because antibodies are generated for more of the virus, instead of just the spike protein in the case of vaccines. If there is negligible additional protection then why take the risk of vaccine injury? Why can't antibody tests be regarded in the same way as vaccination for 'passport' purposes? The CDC e…

The science on this is clear, please update your stance.

Natural immunity is not as protective as vaccine induced immunity. It is in fact 2.3x more likely that you will get reinfected while unvaccinated, and a stronger immune response from the vaccine means fewer people end up hospitalized. See:

> Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

Re: Breakthrough Cases May Be a Bigger Problem Than You’ve Been Told

#20

Post by chiefalchemist » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #9

newbamboo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The economic aspect has figured into calculations but there’s been no transparency around that fact. The news media are the worst in this regard. For those of us with very high risk loved ones who refuse to accept any facts that aren’t broadcast in full force through the usual dumbed down news outlets which I won’t name directly, it’s been a horrifyingly stressful month.

the usual dumbed down news outlets You mean NPR where recently Atul Gawande was calling the pandemic a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and urged everyone to take the vaccine? He's right in a way, being vaccinated keeps you out of hospital, but it won't prevent you that much from catching the disease and developing post-covid syndrome. And you can still spread the virus in your community.

"Pandemic of the unvaxinated" should be relabled "Pandemic of the non-existent leadership." You don't get someone on board by marginalizing and alienating them.