Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

pcworld.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 29 posts

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#11

Post by mimixco »

beezischillin wrote: post #9
mimixco wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. But that's not a smoothly-integrated user experience and navigating the rest of Windows on that machine without a mouse and keyboard is going to be a pain. Steam didn't build a console UI that works from the boot state, like MS did for the Xbox version of Windows. If it were up to me, I think I would have picked that approach rather than adding an emulation layer (Proton/WINE) in-between.

I don't necessarily know how you could write a smoothly-integrated shell for Windows the same way you can for your own Linux distro and not be constantly occupied with catching up and fixing your stuff from the potential changes from Microsoft just to make all the settings and toggles work properly to change things in the underlying Windows OS and then still potentially get issues from the Windows Update process that…

For sure! Being tied to MS is probably why they didn't do it. I seem to remember that's why Newell made Steam in the first place, so he wasn't tied to MS.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#12

Post by beezischillin »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #7
mimixco wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. But that's not a smoothly-integrated user experience and navigating the rest of Windows on that machine without a mouse and keyboard is going to be a pain. Steam didn't build a console UI that works from the boot state, like MS did for the Xbox version of Windows. If it were up to me, I think I would have picked that approach rather than adding an emulation layer (Proton/WINE) in-between.

You can set BPM to launch at boot just by going into Steam -> Settings -> Interface tab -> Enable “Run Steam when my computer starts” and “Start Steam in Big Picture Mode”

My current setup actually involves having a secondary account on my desktop just for gaming with BPM booting up on startup and my PC being set up to log into that desktop automatically, connected to the TV via HDMI. For anything else I've a Microsoft-connected account and a patch on Remote Desktop (which is probably the most impressive feature of Windows, to be honest, at least to me) to allow multiple sessions so I can log into it from my laptop at any time.

I also have two other Samsung TVs with their Tizen OS thingy that has Steam Remote on them so I can log in and play any game remotely from anywhere in the house if I want. It's pretty crazy and impressive, considering that as a kid, growing up it broke my heart that I can't even play the Rayman 2 demo I had because I couldn't afford a 3D accelerated GPU :)

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#13

Post by jayd16 »

mimixco wrote: post #10
entropicdrifter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can set BPM to launch at boot just by going into Steam -> Settings -> Interface tab -> Enable “Run Steam when my computer starts” and “Start Steam in Big Picture Mode”

Right. I'm talking about the rest of the computer. How will you manage files on a Steam Deck? How will you access Windows Update? Is your "desktop" going to be covered in icons? Using Windows on Steam Deck (not using Steam on Steam Deck, using the Windows OS) is going to be difficult because the device lacks a mouse and keyboard on which Windows is dependent. Fixing this for Xbox required making an entirely new UI (f…

It has a touchscreen which windows supports. Won't it feel like a surface in tablet mode?

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#14

Post by dtagames »

jayd16 wrote: post #13
mimixco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm talking about the rest of the computer. How will you manage files on a Steam Deck? How will you access Windows Update? Is your "desktop" going to be covered in icons? Using Windows on Steam Deck (not using Steam on Steam Deck, using the Windows OS) is going to be difficult because the device lacks a mouse and keyboard on which Windows is dependent. Fixing this for Xbox required making an entirely new UI (f…

It has a touchscreen which windows supports. Won't it feel like a surface in tablet mode?

I think you'll be very hard pressed to use a tiny device without a mouse or keyboard effectively in Windows. Even Windows 11 contains numerous small and overlapping dialogs with all kinds of UI affordances. None of this is setup for touch. Yes, theoretically, you could get it to work, but it won't be fun. The pop-up keyboard, for example, will likely cover a big part of whatever dialog box you're typing into. Moving and managing windows with touch is also not fun at all.

Not coincidentally, this is the same reason that MacOS doesn't have touchscreens. Everything about that OS also requires a mouse (or touchpad) and a keyboard. Just adding a touchscreen to a Mac won't do it.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#15

Post by beezischillin »

jayd16 wrote: post #13
mimixco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm talking about the rest of the computer. How will you manage files on a Steam Deck? How will you access Windows Update? Is your "desktop" going to be covered in icons? Using Windows on Steam Deck (not using Steam on Steam Deck, using the Windows OS) is going to be difficult because the device lacks a mouse and keyboard on which Windows is dependent. Fixing this for Xbox required making an entirely new UI (f…

It has a touchscreen which windows supports. Won't it feel like a surface in tablet mode?

It'll probably be a bit awkward to use for anything other than gaming, maybe if anyone really wants media playback they can just duct tape Kodi to it, which you can do if you add it to Steam as an external app and have it appear in your list of software .

It seems to me that if anyone really wants to do power user stuff on it, they'll dock it and use a keyboard and a mouse anyway on a far larger screen.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#17

Post by jraph »

I'm quite happy that Valve is pushing GNU/Linux as a gaming platform. I like that they are working hard on improving Wine, too. I hope it will eventually allow many people migrating to Linux, who are reluctantly staying on Windows just for games, and open a door for gamers currently happy with Windows but open to try Linux.

But this:

> Devoted PC game developers felt especially anxious. Newell called it “a giant sadness.” Blizzard executive VP Rob Pardo tweeted that Windows 8 is “not awesome for Blizzard either” in the wake of Newell’s 'catastrophe' comment.

… as a distant observer, this feels incredibly awkward coming from representatives of companies who are seemingly among the worst offenders, maintaining closed networks / platforms and forcing among the worst DRMs on people.

It's the pot calling the kettle black.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#18

Post by staticman2 »

mimixco wrote: post #10
entropicdrifter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can set BPM to launch at boot just by going into Steam -> Settings -> Interface tab -> Enable “Run Steam when my computer starts” and “Start Steam in Big Picture Mode”

Right. I'm talking about the rest of the computer. How will you manage files on a Steam Deck? How will you access Windows Update? Is your "desktop" going to be covered in icons? Using Windows on Steam Deck (not using Steam on Steam Deck, using the Windows OS) is going to be difficult because the device lacks a mouse and keyboard on which Windows is dependent. Fixing this for Xbox required making an entirely new UI (f…

You'd probably dock the Steam Deck if you want to manage files. Though I imagine the touch screen would be usable for simple actions like rebooting to update windows. Putting windows into tablet mode and searching with the on screen keyboard may work better than attempting to click icons or use the desktop in handheld mode.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#19

Post by Kuraj »

beezischillin wrote: post #5

I'd be happy if Valve's other big legacy for gaming ended up being that they started a snowball that made Linux a viable alternative for gaming. For me the requirement for that would be fairly broad compatibility and a performance that's at least close enough to Windows to not give me the feeling that I'm bottlenecking the hardware I paid all that money for. Other than that I mostly use my desktop as a media server a…

I'm confident in saying that with Valve's Proton this is already happening.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#20

Post by mimixco »

staticman2 wrote: post #18
mimixco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm talking about the rest of the computer. How will you manage files on a Steam Deck? How will you access Windows Update? Is your "desktop" going to be covered in icons? Using Windows on Steam Deck (not using Steam on Steam Deck, using the Windows OS) is going to be difficult because the device lacks a mouse and keyboard on which Windows is dependent. Fixing this for Xbox required making an entirely new UI (f…

You'd probably dock the Steam Deck if you want to manage files. Though I imagine the touch screen would be usable for simple actions like rebooting to update windows. Putting windows into tablet mode and searching with the on screen keyboard may work better than attempting to click icons or use the desktop in handheld mode.

Yes, all of these workarounds are examples of why it's not a workable solution. Can you imagine if a Nintendo Switch required that much falderal? It wouldn't sell.

The point I'm making is that normal folks will not dock it or goof around with touchscreen compromises in order to run Windows, which they will also have to install themselves! This is the opposite of a smooth, integrated, pick-up-and-play experience.

Since MS makes hardware now, what's to keep them from making a handheld that runs the Xbox version of Windows?

Post reply on HN