Absolutely fascinating. I love hearing about Neanderthals and Denisovans and look forward to scientists learning even more in the future. It's mind boggling to think of other sentient species like our own that we could actually interbreed with.
What does it tell us that none of the other hominid lineages survived?
The Highbrow Neanderthal
11–20 of 28 posts
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
I interpreted your comment in the way GP did. Perhaps you might not be communicating exactly as you thought?
I did not interpret the open question by /u/wombatmobile the way you and the other poster did. It is not clear from the text that one should do so. It is not conductive to a discussion to err on the side of malice when in doubt. It is better to clarify and/or to assume the other poster wants to foster discussion.
But what if there was more evidence? Well there could be if we were willing to instantiate a Neanderthal genome in vivo…
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
That homo sapiens sapiens most likely displaced them, but that doesn't really mean as much as your comment might intend to insinuate. Neanderthals lasted half a million years, and the more we learn the more we appraise them as sophisticated. That said, they seem to have faced a caloric challenge in a world with sparse mega fauna. Based on everything I've read, modern humans pre-language excelled at one specific thing…
That's a pretty brutal selection mechanism. How fast and far can you go while slowly starving with your tribe in tow...
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
That homo sapiens sapiens most likely displaced them, but that doesn't really mean as much as your comment might intend to insinuate. Neanderthals lasted half a million years, and the more we learn the more we appraise them as sophisticated. That said, they seem to have faced a caloric challenge in a world with sparse mega fauna. Based on everything I've read, modern humans pre-language excelled at one specific thing…
> that doesn't really mean as much as your comment might intend to insinuate. Mine was an open question. Your speculation about what I might intend to insinuate is perhaps a projection from your own psyche, which you haven't actually articulated, so I can't comment further on it. If you imagine I was saying something like modern humans were superior to other hominids because they defeated them - I wasn't. In fact, it…
So our ability to walk long distances in moderate to high temperatures is what allowed us to thrive on the plains vs jungles of Africa, before we were modern humans.
As far as modern humans go, it wasn't a single wave of migration, or even multiple waves of migration. The more we learn the more we realize it was more like diffusion of increasingly advanced culture across a mesh that pre-existed across the globe.
Our distance endurance was literally useful for traveling to new and better places as hunter gatherers, or simply following seasons. But it also enabled very specific tactics like persistence hunting or steering entire herds into human designed funnel traps. Near as I can tell from reading these were pretty key to our rise at a critical time.
Then of course, language and the accumulation of knowledge it enables was the huge jump to modernity. We'd like to think we're far past that jump but we really aren't, we've just gotten so good at cracking rocks against each other now they're on the cusp of thinking the same way we do.
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does it tell us that none of the other hominid lineages survived?
Homo Sapiens left Africa in several waves after 250,000 BC and every single wave went extinct till about 60,000 years ago. The question isn't "Why did Neanderthals go extinct?" but "Why did every species of human repeatedly go extinct outside of Africa?" And that needs to be balanced against the nuance that Neanderthals survived at least 600,000 years, straight through the period when Sapiens were recuringly going ex…
[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/05/the-asto...
[2] https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/humans-may-have-reac...
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#16Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#17As much as it is the new vogue to claim that Neanderthals where artistic, I am not convinced yet that these artifacts are not signs of newcomers (homo sapiens).
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does it tell us that none of the other hominid lineages survived?
Homo Sapiens left Africa in several waves after 250,000 BC and every single wave went extinct till about 60,000 years ago. The question isn't "Why did Neanderthals go extinct?" but "Why did every species of human repeatedly go extinct outside of Africa?" And that needs to be balanced against the nuance that Neanderthals survived at least 600,000 years, straight through the period when Sapiens were recuringly going ex…
At looking for clues about why those initial waves went exting, maybe we could take a look at how more recent tribes or even old civilizations like Incas, Mayas, etc. made it through a couple of centuries, and eventually got "extint".
Some of those groups were surrounded by other tribes, and tried to expand their territories, with different outcomes.
Some didn't tried to expand, they just got well adjusted to their original territory and didn't need more resources.
But everyone in those groups eventually disappeared from history.
Even when the american continent was discovered, the remaining "true" mayas didn't remembered or indicated that those big monuments, cities ever existed already taken / hidden by the jungle. Many of those also, were just found literally hundreds of years after having seen the last true mayas.
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does it tell us that none of the other hominid lineages survived?
Homo Sapiens left Africa in several waves after 250,000 BC and every single wave went extinct till about 60,000 years ago. The question isn't "Why did Neanderthals go extinct?" but "Why did every species of human repeatedly go extinct outside of Africa?" And that needs to be balanced against the nuance that Neanderthals survived at least 600,000 years, straight through the period when Sapiens were recuringly going ex…
Just like it happens to migrants in our time, in just a few years, not thousands.
It could be that after 600.000 years, Neanderthals got somehow behind minimal species fitness required to endure lasting species survival, and they were - this time - absorbed by the Homo Sapiens.
Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal
#20Then the original Neanderthal civilization had a sharp edge over the Sapiens, through thousand of years.
Ok, everyone says here "but technological development SHOULD have happened". And I would say "not necessarily", and it actually could happened a couple of times, but it didn't had the written word advantage to keep building upon learned stuff (you keep discovering-then-forgetting the same things over and over), or maybe there was other factor limiting the Neanderthal technological development (neurological, strong "bad-to-tech" cultural practices, etc.).
You say "not probably", but Homo Sapiens just recently (re)learned to wash hands as a safe method to better health outcomes, maybe for the 40th time in several thousands of years across a dozen of civilizations / tribes who already know about washed-hands = good health: