Live data from Hacker News

Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

ft.com

11–20 of 390 posts

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#11

Whose to say what is abuse? Are Caesar Milan tactics on a child abuse? This is outright dangerous beyond belief. Nobody is gonna wanna be a parent if you have to worry about your kid being mad at you and then posts something like that. IIRC there was a teenage girl that lied about her father molesting her back in the 2000s. No evidence, just pure hearsay. Dude was locked up for like 10 years. Now imagine that on a gr…

That would be false testimony, not hearsay. Hearsay ("John Smith told me he heard MeinBlut kidnapped the Lindbergh baby") is not allowed. Witnesses lying about what they saw and or participated in is allowed, although it can be lies.

Sorry, and as for "what is abuse", these are looking for exploited children. There are a lot of questions here, the morality of mass surveillance, the risk factors due to hash collisions (intentional or otherwise), etc, the one thing I doubt is an issue is a fuzzy line on "is this abuse"

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#14
I really don't see how this is going to end well, there could be perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children doing perfectly normal things that kids do. Like a kid running butt naked around the house, or a photo of something like a rash that is sent to a nurse friend for advice on what it is etc.

I'm all for protecting children from being abused, but how are they going to filter what is normal and what is abuse without human intervention? And at that point isn't that a vast invasion of privacy to the perfectly innocent? It's different if it's online because that puts it in the public realm or on devices/servers owned by Apple, etc.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#16
The key item in the article is that if enough content is marked contentious apple will automatically decrypt your phone for you and disable your encryption. So apple's not merely helping law enforcement find contentious content, they are enabling a back door that makes phone encryption essentially swiss cheese.

In 5 years: Apple and Google to scan your phones for politically contentious content and automatically remove it for you/report it to the authorities so you can get the proper help you need to understand what you should believe.

I've loved my apple phones for many years now, but it seems this is the end of my relationship with apple. I will be using an open source phone next.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#18
post #3

https://towardsdatascience.com/black-box-attacks-on-perceptu... I mean, who's to say that my hash is actually what they think it is... ...and if it's not uploaded to iCloud for someone to manually review what the image is, is that going to be enough to get a search warrant for my phone? "AUSA SOMEONE: But, Your Honor, The Defendant's phone has an image that matched a hash of a CSAM picture!" "DEFENDANT: I'm not going…

EDIT: It appears they are using perceptual hashes, which are likely much more prone to collisions. The following math does NOT apply to the tech Apple is using.

>> I mean, who's to say that my hash is actually what they think it is...

Let's do the math. assume they are using a UUID for the hash. "For example, the number of random version-4 UUIDs which need to be generated in order to have a 50% probability of at least one collision is 2.71 quintillion" [1]

"The odds of This number is equivalent to generating 1 billion UUIDs per second for about 85 years." And that's for just 1 collision between two random photos. Considering that the pool of bad hashes is not going to be 2.7 quintillion but a fraction of that, this is more than adequate.

And of course they could use a longer checksum if that's the concern. (Not to take a stance on the parent issue, just to explain that hash's are probably a higher standard of proof than DNA matches)

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_unique_identifier#...

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#20

I really don't see how this is going to end well, there could be perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children doing perfectly normal things that kids do. Like a kid running butt naked around the house, or a photo of something like a rash that is sent to a nurse friend for advice on what it is etc. I'm all for protecting children from being abused, but how are they going to filter what is normal…

I think they are probably just going to match the hashes to known hashes of "bad" images.
Post reply on HN