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OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

extremetech.com

11–20 of 49 posts

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#11
Pure BS. Pretty much everything here is either a non-issue, or something that actually undermines the argument.

For example, "it's taken them [my parents] this long to learn how to quit an app, as opposed to simply closing its windows". Well, my parents have been on Mac a few years now, and they still haven't learned it. Now they don't have to. Great!

Plus there are other changes that will help beginners. Both my parents have been flummoxed after accidentally clicking the top-right lozenge in an app window: "where did all the buttons go?!". That lozenge is history. Great!

Etc.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#12
Funny, I feel exactly the opposite way. New users won't care one bit about the scrolling direction. They won't care about mostly-invisible scrollbars and they probably won't even discover multitouch gestures.

They will however find the App Store, they will see the Mission Control Dock icon and they will recognize the window resizing controls. They will also find use for the ubiquitous autocorrect and full screen apps.

All things told, Lion is a departure from Microsoft Windows paradigms, and thus will give switchers a somewhat harder time. But in general, I think it is a lot cleaner and more discoverable than its predecessors.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#13
post #11

Pure BS. Pretty much everything here is either a non-issue, or something that actually undermines the argument. For example, "it's taken them [my parents] this long to learn how to quit an app, as opposed to simply closing its windows". Well, my parents have been on Mac a few years now, and they still haven't learned it. Now they don't have to. Great! Plus there are other changes that will help beginners. Both my par…

Plus, Lion makes quitting apps virtually meaningless.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#14
"The old way, the Snow Leopard way, was that advanced features were purely optional. If you wanted multiple desktops, you activated Spaces. If you wanted to put the UI to work for multi-tasking, you used Expose. It was great for people who wanted more from their Macs, and it worked out perfectly for newer users who needed to ease into it all"

I think this was the point. Much of the effort in Lion seems to be around exposing useful, but esoteric features, that were present in previous versions. My perspective is that Apple wants everyone to be able to get more from their Macs, not just the elite power user set. Mission Control and full screen apps really make the case for virtual desktops. Spaces were basically lifted whole from Linux desktops, but they now actually feel well integrated into the Mac experience.

Just because someone is not an advanced user, it doesn't mean that they should not get advanced features.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#15
post #2

New users and non-techies aren’t the only groups negatively affected by Lion’s changes, either. Seasoned Apple users have spent the last two days filling the internet with blog posts and Twitter updates noting their frustrations. Whether it’s the gestures, scrolling, full-screen apps, Mission Control, Versions, or Resume — people are having more than their fair share of trouble adjusting. Every release of anything is…

I agree, it was the same after Snow Leopard. It was the same with Windows 7, although maybe less so since Vista was sooo horrible and a lot of people were happy for the change.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#16
post #3

I'm not sure how he came to the conclusion that Lion isn't beginner-friendly anymore. The only reason it took him 20 minutes to get acclimated is because he's most likely been using advanced features of OS X (that were slightly changed in Lion) for years and it took him a little while to rewrite his muscle memory. I installed Lion on both of my parent's computers a few weeks ago. The only things they noticed that was…

First, I haven't used Lion yet. But from listening to Engadget it sounds as if they have made some rather confusing changes.

For example, they point out that application-wide gestures are two finger and system-wide gestures are three finger. This strongly assumes that people know the difference. Based on convos I've had people don't. "Which version of Office are you using?" "XP". "Office XP?" "Umm, Windows XP?". "OK, that's the version of Windows. What is the version of Office?" "The whole computer is XP". They were using Office 2003.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#17
post #7

I've tried, but I just can't get used to Lion's "natural" scrolling. I think a better transition would be to leave mouse scrolling alone, but reverse the scrolling direction for MacBook trackpads and the "Magic Trackpad" device.

I agree, but that is why it is configurable. Actually, I guess I could get used to it--but that would make switching OSes so much more painful it is just not worth the effort.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#18

They switched from Windows XP earlier this year, and it’s taken them this long to learn how to _quit_ an app, as opposed to simply closing its windows. That's exactly why Lion is more beginner friendly. They don't need to know how to quit an app anymore. Why would you ever care to quit an app? That's a legacy concept that's so ingrained in the author's memory that he can't comprehend not knowing it. Think, instead, o…

Why are you talking about not having to quit apps? Lion still has the concept of quitting apps versus closing windows. Are you just talking about iOS or am I missing something?

I actually think the handling of background apps running state handling would be one of the best things to port from iOS to Mac. There are obvious large hurdles, though.

--EDIT-- I guess you're talking about resume but the issue is having apps still running after all windows are closed. I see people who leave all office applications open just because they were working on a document, spreadsheet, and slideshow in the last week. Apple needs to encourage more developers to focus on quick launch times and quitting applications like the App Store does when windows are closed.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#19
post #3

I'm not sure how he came to the conclusion that Lion isn't beginner-friendly anymore. The only reason it took him 20 minutes to get acclimated is because he's most likely been using advanced features of OS X (that were slightly changed in Lion) for years and it took him a little while to rewrite his muscle memory. I installed Lion on both of my parent's computers a few weeks ago. The only things they noticed that was…

First, I haven't used Lion yet. But from listening to Engadget it sounds as if they have made some rather confusing changes. For example, they point out that application-wide gestures are two finger and system-wide gestures are three finger. This strongly assumes that people know the difference. Based on convos I've had people don't. "Which version of Office are you using?" "XP". "Office XP?" "Umm, Windows XP?". "OK,…

However, that's a difference that can be picked up experimentally and can start making sense: "two fingers keep me in the browser, three fingers throw me out of the browser and go somewhere else." You don't get punished by using the wrong gesture (unless it's a web page in Safari that doesn't support back and forward movement): if you use three fingers in one direction, three fingers in the other direction will get you back.

Your contrast of versions of Windows and Office is an apples and oranges comparison. People don't know that difference because it doesn't matter and there is no reason to even discover that difference.

Re: OS X Lion: Macs' beginner-friendly days are over

#20
> and it’s taken them this long to learn how to quit an app, as opposed to simply closing its windows.

Well that's the whole point: they shouldn't need to know the difference. The system should take care of that and beginning with Lion it will.

> As another example, let’s say someone who’s never used Expose or Spaces accidentally activates Lion’s new full-screen feature in Safari. Apps that go full-screen create a new Space to live in, and, obviously, they fill the entire screen. I don’t know about your parents, but the phrase “how do I get out of this” rings in my head just thinking about it. So does the needlessly lengthy phone call that would follow.

So you tell them "swipe left or right with three fingers" and then they'll know. Software doesn't need to be immediately and completely obvious to everyone in every situation. What's important is that basic concepts are universally applicable once they're learned.

And keep in mind that discoverability does not mean every possible action needs to be visible at first sight. Swiping should become immediately clear once you fool around with the trackpad; the feedback is obvious, immediate and pleasant.

> Use another app, and the same gesture could mean something completely different.

I don't think the slight differences in the minutiae of swiping gestures (one finger, two fingers, three fingers,...) is that big of a deal. There is (or should be!) immediate feedback and the actions are always (or should always be!) nondestructive. It should not take long for anyone to figure things out.

Granted, there is always the problem of especially older people being less... "playful" in how they approach new technology. Most often that stems from a fear of breaking things. Which is exactly why it's so great that we're finally on the right track with the latest trends towards "care-free" computing environments: autosave, unlimited undo, auto resume, automatic backup and synchronization etc.

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