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Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

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Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#11

Post by m0llusk »

yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

This doesn't attempt to quell anything, it just points out that being certain of origins is probably going to require rigorous investigation. This is the same as with SARS and MERS which both took around 15 years to fully understand and also did not have full cooperation from the governments involved.

Like most science all of the statements here can be verified with respect to the sources cited. Saying that the origins of SARS-CoV2 have not been conclusively established but are of great interest is not controversial.

If there is any lack of credibility here it is with lab leak hypothesis enthusiasts failing to supply solid evidence and then claiming that criticism amounts to both censorship and a kind of indirect proof of their assertions.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#12

Post by jackfoxy »

yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

Chris Martensen's analysis of the dump of Fauci's emails is pretty damning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNxoVFZwMYw

The coordinated lying and censorship from leading institutions and media over the last 18 months does not make me hopeful that this time it will be different.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#13

Post by julienchastang »

unanswered wrote: post #5

Science is not an appropriate epistemic tool to answer an historical question.

Do you care to elaborate? For example, it was science ex post facto that established Luc Montagnier and not Robert Gallo was the first to isolate HIV [0]. Interestingly, Luc Montagnier has a role in the lab origin theory of SARS-CoV-2.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#14

Post by m0llusk »

pfortuny wrote: post #9
yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

Moreover: no statement on conflicts of interest (at least not readily available), possibly because it is “only” a letter (wish I could get one published in the lancet…). Rubbish.

You might not agree with what is stated, but the final paragraph is full of clarifications of interests.

> PD's remuneration is paid solely in the form of a salary from EcoHealth Alliance, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organisation. EcoHealth Alliance's mission ... Funding for this work comes from ... EcoHealth Alliance's work in China was previously funded by ... PD joined the WHO–China joint global study on the animal origins of SARS-CoV-2 towards the end of 2020 and is currently a member. As per WHO rules ... includes collaboration with a range of universities and governmental health and environmental science organisations, all of which are listed in prior publications, three of which received funding from ... All of EcoHealth Alliance's work is reviewed and approved by ...

And so on. This is the longest paragraph by far and goes into considerable detail regarding the contributors, their sources, and the intentions and revenue sources for all involvements.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#15

Post by temp8964 »

yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

Lancet is still publishing paper from this guy? It seems the ethical standard of the viorlogy scientific community is shockingly low. Maybe I just don't understand "how science works".

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#16

Post by jxramos »

Can someone substantiate this idea that it's improbable for a virus to surmount these two evolutionary obstacles highlighted below? I'll copy the quote for the idea I've seen circulating, the bold part is the idea I'd like to hear challenged and would like to learn more about what its foundation is predicated upon.

    For ultimately, in order to create a human pandemic, an animal virus has to accomplish **two very difficult things**. First, it has to successfully infect a person, and then it needs to jump from one person to the next rapidly enough to get ahead of the rate at which sufferers recover or die. SARS2 is a master of this trick, but the closest wild relatives seem to be neutralised, with spike proteins built to invade horseshoe bat cells, not human cells. To trigger a pandemic in people they need substantial evolutionary retooling.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#17

Post by 908B64B197 »

yonaguska wrote: post #4

Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis. Peter Daszak being one of the authors of this paper basically removes any shred of credibility for what is effectively an opinion piece.

> Ecohealth Alliance with another "peer-reviewed" published paper attempting to quell the lab-leak hypothesis.

It would be interesting to look at who's funding these organizations and individuals. Is some of the funding tied to entities that are under the control of the CCP?

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#18

Post by refenestrator »

brodouevencode wrote: post #3
ianai wrote: post #2

Call to action: “”” We welcome calls for scientifically rigorous investigations.10, 11 To accomplish this, we encourage WHO and scientific partners across the world to expeditiously move to continue and further extend their initial investigation with experts in China and the Chinese Government. WHO's report from March, 2021,12 must be considered the beginning rather than the end of an inquiry, and we strongly support…

I'm pretty cynical about this. The CCP hasn't been very forthcoming so far and I don't suspect that to change.

Why limit your cynicism? The US has plenty of motivation as well.

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#19

Post by ianai »

brodouevencode wrote: post #3
ianai wrote: post #2

Call to action: “”” We welcome calls for scientifically rigorous investigations.10, 11 To accomplish this, we encourage WHO and scientific partners across the world to expeditiously move to continue and further extend their initial investigation with experts in China and the Chinese Government. WHO's report from March, 2021,12 must be considered the beginning rather than the end of an inquiry, and we strongly support…

I'm pretty cynical about this. The CCP hasn't been very forthcoming so far and I don't suspect that to change.

But what is the alternative?

Re: Science is needed to find how sars-cov2 reached humans

#20

Post by monocasa »

jxramos wrote: post #16

Can someone substantiate this idea that it's improbable for a virus to surmount these two evolutionary obstacles highlighted below? I'll copy the quote for the idea I've seen circulating, the bold part is the idea I'd like to hear challenged and would like to learn more about what its foundation is predicated upon. For ultimately, in order to create a human pandemic, an animal virus has to accomplish **two very diffi…

It's rare in the global sense, but really nasty infections are sort of known for jumping from another mammalian species. AIDS, original SARS, Ebola, etc. all fit that pattern.
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