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Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

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Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#11

Post by ruggeri »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #4

It sounds like being ruled over by a socialite. I don't know anything about Peter, did he take anything apart from fashion from his grand tour? It says he worked at a shipyard which is admirable but no further mention of what impression that left.

He was an extremely active ruler. Founded the Russian navy, founded St. Petersburg. He was indeed also very interested in all kinds of science and technology and tried to import these to Russia.

https://www.amazon.com/Peter-Great-Robert-K-Massie-audiobook...

On the other hand, it seems that all the monarchs of this time basically treated their land as their inherited, God-given wealth. So in that respect, Peter and practically all others were extremely ego-centric and shallow. Modernization did not extend to democratization.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#12

Post by vagrantJin »

hereforphone wrote: post #3

The article states that this was part of an effort to reorient the country's culture. That might seem strange to Americans / Western Europeans today, but this was not an isolated case and while it might not be PC to say so, this could be a constructive thing (with the right approach and an amount of luck). A more modern example is Turkey, where Atatürk revised script, clothing, education, and many other aspects of th…

> while it might not be PC to say so, this could be a constructive thing

That's called euro-centrism isn't it. And every westerner believes wholeheartedly that it is the best most constructive thing to do. So it is neither right nor wrong politically.

But it does dull the world when every place you go to is Europe in microcosm. That is a true vision of dystopian hell itself.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#13

Post by tenfourwookie »

trident5000 wrote: post #10

As someone with a beard, I just cant imagine shaving every morning. Seems like a huge pain in the ass and waste of time. You do you if thats your thing though.

It certainly would have been then. Today even sandpaper beards like my own are quickwork with an electric trimmer.

Have you ever tried trimming significant facial hair with a pair of scissors? Holy hell is that tedious!

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#15

Post by hereforphone »

vagrantJin wrote: post #12
hereforphone wrote: post #3

The article states that this was part of an effort to reorient the country's culture. That might seem strange to Americans / Western Europeans today, but this was not an isolated case and while it might not be PC to say so, this could be a constructive thing (with the right approach and an amount of luck). A more modern example is Turkey, where Atatürk revised script, clothing, education, and many other aspects of th…

> while it might not be PC to say so, this could be a constructive thing That's called euro-centrism isn't it. And every westerner believes wholeheartedly that it is the best most constructive thing to do. So it is neither right nor wrong politically. But it does dull the world when every place you go to is Europe in microcosm. That is a true vision of dystopian hell itself.

Spend a couple years in Italy. Spend a couple years in Syria. Come back and tell me which you prefer.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#16

Post by simonh »

trident5000 wrote: post #10

As someone with a beard, I just cant imagine shaving every morning. Seems like a huge pain in the ass and waste of time. You do you if thats your thing though.

Eh, for me it takes less time than brushing my teeth.

Then again under lockdown it's more like once or twice a week than daily. I suppose that counts against my argument though, if it was so easy why don't I still do it daily?

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#17

Post by soperj »

boxerab wrote: post #9
lordleft wrote: post #8

This decision -- along with many others inaugurated by Peter -- contributed to the perception of a european/slavic bifurcation in the Russian soul. Tolstoy, Turgenev, Dostoevsky and many others wrestled with the implications of this centuries later. I daresay it still shapes russian self-perception.

Not just perception - there was a very real conflict in the 19th century between traditional Russian values and western ideas such as nihilism and socialism. Dostoevsky was such an idealist in his youth, then turning his back on those movements after being imprisoned in hard labor camp. In his book Demons, he very much groks the dangers of these western ideas, which led to the disastrous 70 year reign of the Bolshevi…

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#18

Post by simonh »

A digression for sure, but I really love the pseudo-historical comedy drama The Great, in which a beard ban is a minor plot point. It plays merry hell with historical accuracy, but is tons of fun.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#19

Post by its_nikita »

I cannot recommend this book enough to anyone interested in history/russia/ or good stories in general:

https://www.harvard.com/book/peter_the_great_his_life_and_wo...

Peter the Great's life is extremely interesting, and that book, while being a biography, honestly reads like an exciting novel. There are so many "game of thrones"-like moments in his life.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#20

Post by ploika »

hereforphone wrote: post #15
vagrantJin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while it might not be PC to say so, this could be a constructive thing That's called euro-centrism isn't it. And every westerner believes wholeheartedly that it is the best most constructive thing to do. So it is neither right nor wrong politically. But it does dull the world when every place you go to is Europe in microcosm. That is a true vision of dystopian hell itself.

Spend a couple years in Italy. Spend a couple years in Syria. Come back and tell me which you prefer.

The one not at war obviously. Being in Europe didn't save Bosnia from being a pretty awful place to be in the 90s.
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