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Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

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Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#11

The whole intuition thing is rather questionable. You learn how things work and then you get used to them. It doesn't matter much whether it's an apple icon or a start button. Neither shouts "shutdown!". It's much more important how much work frequently repeated actions take once you know them. No keyboard shortcut can ever be intuitive in the sense you could have suspected what it does without learning about it. But…

I agree. In a lot of cases it's a mistake to cater to inexperienced users by making your GUI 'intuitive'. The bulk of your users are intermediates and power users. A user interface should cater to those people and gently nudge beginners in the same direction.

The old word interface (not the ribbon) actually did a pretty good job in this. Beginners used the menubar to do things. The options where accompanied by icons ("ooh, that's the same as the one on the iconbar.") and keyboard shortcuts ("What happens if I press Ctrl - S?"). The user interface doesn't get in the way of power users and teaches beginners and intermediate users.

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#13
post #7
post #4

This is just more illustration of the cultural difference between the two camps of developers: Microsoft: Yes this seems strange, but this is actually what the users want - and we have tests to prove it - so we'll do it Linux: RTFM n00bz! Ubuntu! Ubuntu!

As a Windows and Ubuntu user I would find it offensive in a face to face talk. Your statement is an overgeneralization to say the least.

Well here's a question for you:

1) Does Canonical operate a usability lab?

2) Would Ubuntu developers pay any attention if it did?

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#14

The whole intuition thing is rather questionable. You learn how things work and then you get used to them. It doesn't matter much whether it's an apple icon or a start button. Neither shouts "shutdown!". It's much more important how much work frequently repeated actions take once you know them. No keyboard shortcut can ever be intuitive in the sense you could have suspected what it does without learning about it. But…

I agree. In a lot of cases it's a mistake to cater to inexperienced users by making your GUI 'intuitive'. The bulk of your users are intermediates and power users. A user interface should cater to those people and gently nudge beginners in the same direction. The old word interface (not the ribbon) actually did a pretty good job in this. Beginners used the menubar to do things. The options where accompanied by icons…

Yeah, this is certainly an interesting topic in UI design. When Microsoft had the problem of people not knowing what to do when their computer started up, they relabeled "system" to "start" counterintuitively rather than building a progressive disclosure system into Windows. It may have been better to put a little hovering popup bubble that pointed towards the system icon and said "Click here to start" the first few times you started up (or until user testing showed people had learned what to do).

In later versions of windows, they had a whole window with tons of options pop up at every single startup. In Vista, the window has useless computer information, like how much RAM you have. They not only confuse beginners, but they punish intermediate and advanced users until they find the little checkbox that says not to start it every time.

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#15

I guess that's why Vista doesn't have a start button.

I guess it's because almost every windows user is familiar with the button in the lower left corner nowadays. It's been that way for almost 13 years now.

maybe to make it nicer-looking when the taskbar is on the side of the screen? http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2003/09/20/55055.a...

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#16
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Windows and Ubuntu user I would find it offensive in a face to face talk. Your statement is an overgeneralization to say the least.

Well here's a question for you: 1) Does Canonical operate a usability lab? 2) Would Ubuntu developers pay any attention if it did?

(1) Novell (the guys with more money) do.

(1a) I care about usability a _lot_ and I don't have a lab. A simple pc in a room is quite adequate for most studies. (For some of them you don't even need a pc)

(2) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-...

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#17
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Windows and Ubuntu user I would find it offensive in a face to face talk. Your statement is an overgeneralization to say the least.

Well here's a question for you: 1) Does Canonical operate a usability lab? 2) Would Ubuntu developers pay any attention if it did?

Canonical doesn't, gnome does. http://usability.gnome.org/

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. In a lot of cases it's a mistake to cater to inexperienced users by making your GUI 'intuitive'. The bulk of your users are intermediates and power users. A user interface should cater to those people and gently nudge beginners in the same direction. The old word interface (not the ribbon) actually did a pretty good job in this. Beginners used the menubar to do things. The options where accompanied by icons…

Yeah, this is certainly an interesting topic in UI design. When Microsoft had the problem of people not knowing what to do when their computer started up, they relabeled "system" to "start" counterintuitively rather than building a progressive disclosure system into Windows. It may have been better to put a little hovering popup bubble that pointed towards the system icon and said "Click here to start" the first few…

In fact, Windows 95 would optionally have "<- Click here to begin" slide across the taskbar from right to left when the system started up.

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#19
Let's see, the usability tests showed that a lot of people stared at the windows desktop on startup and were at a loss.

Given that they were copying the macintosh what, a decade after the original mac's release, you'd think they might actually look at some user tests of people using a mac.

I'm sure they would find that given that the only obvious thing on the screen is a computer icon, they would click on it, and tada, there they are now staring at a window filled with what is IN their computer.

The metaphor is simple, and it works.

Now more than a decade later, and we are still stuck with this idiocy that the desktop is a totally useless wasteland for auto-installed shortcuts and crap, while the start menu of an average user's system has, not application names, but a mile long list of company names to play the "now who the hell made my text editor?" game.

Re: Why Have a Start Button to Shutdown Windows?

#20

The whole intuition thing is rather questionable. You learn how things work and then you get used to them. It doesn't matter much whether it's an apple icon or a start button. Neither shouts "shutdown!". It's much more important how much work frequently repeated actions take once you know them. No keyboard shortcut can ever be intuitive in the sense you could have suspected what it does without learning about it. But…

The first time I sat down in front of an Xbox 360, I had to be informed that holding down the (X) button on the gamepad turned on the system. And then later on, that holding it down brought up a menu to shut it off.

The Wii remote has a Power button, in the same place as the power button on my TV remote control. No explanation required.

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