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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

livingafi.com

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#11

Post by Koshkin »

disintegore wrote: post #6
lastgeniusua wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I am immediately reminded of the Soviet union's full employment policy, and the absurd jobs they had to invent in order to fulfill it. As a matter of fact they regarded a lack of unemployment as a clear indicator of the superiority of socialism over capitalism. More on this : https://nintil.com/the-soviet-union-achieving-full-employmen... With that said, I expected an article on post-work society. I'm a little bit di…

Except that, theoretically, “communism” is different from “socialism”, and, indeed, in a communist society one could choose not to do anything “useful” (since no one has to work for a living).

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#12

Post by senko »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

> This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions.

Interesting. Most of discussions I've seen explicitly deal with this, it's probably no2 topic (first being status updates).

And the advice given usually boils down to "don't run away from work, run TOWARDS something", which is perfectly sensible.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#13

Post by mwidell »

I think it helped me a lot to "practice" by living on nothing but saved money for 6-12 month periods a couple of times earlier in life. I always found myself very happy and with plenty of exciting things to do during these periods, so when I finally left the rat race for real I knew exactly how I wanted to structure my life.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#14

Post by OJFord »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

> So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day.

People are different, I suppose. Perhaps not in FIRE circles but this is certainly discussed regarding 'normal' retirement, and I don't feel the same way at all. I'm in my twenties, and honestly think I could fill the rest of my life more than once with non-work. Especially if I'm allowed to get paid for doing what I consider to be hobbies rather than work as part of that. At least one of those lifetimes could just be reading!

Do you really find yourself reaching the end of a weekend and thinking Oh thank God I have work tomorrow, I'm so bored?

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#15

Post by benrbray »

OJFord wrote: post #14
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

> So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. People are different, I suppose. Perhaps not in FIRE circles but this is certainly discussed regarding 'normal' retirement, and I don't feel the same way at all. I'm in my twenties, and honestly think I could fill the rest of my life more than once with non-work. Espec…

Agreed. To me, FIRE would mean the freedom to spend every day working on problems I think are important and learning stuff that I think is interesting, whether or not a company agrees with me. All with the knowledge that I can stop working at noon or take a month off whenever I need to!

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#16

Post by ModernMech »

benrbray wrote: post #15
OJFord wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. People are different, I suppose. Perhaps not in FIRE circles but this is certainly discussed regarding 'normal' retirement, and I don't feel the same way at all. I'm in my twenties, and honestly think I could fill the rest of my life more than once with non-work. Espec…

Agreed. To me, FIRE would mean the freedom to spend every day working on problems I think are important and learning stuff that I think is interesting, whether or not a company agrees with me. All with the knowledge that I can stop working at noon or take a month off whenever I need to!

Sounds like you would enjoy academic life!

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#17

Post by disintegore »

Koshkin wrote: post #11
disintegore wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am immediately reminded of the Soviet union's full employment policy, and the absurd jobs they had to invent in order to fulfill it. As a matter of fact they regarded a lack of unemployment as a clear indicator of the superiority of socialism over capitalism. More on this : https://nintil.com/the-soviet-union-achieving-full-employmen... With that said, I expected an article on post-work society. I'm a little bit di…

Except that, theoretically, “communism” is different from “socialism”, and, indeed, in a communist society one could choose not to do anything “useful” (since no one has to work for a living).

I don't believe the Leninist notion of communism incorporated the idea of "not working for a living" either, but I could be wrong.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#18

Post by decebalus1 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

> This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives.

This is a frequent misunderstanding about early 'retirement'. It's not about not working at all. It's about not working for a living. Very important distinction. If tomorrow I'd acquire 'fuck you' money and not have to work, I will quit my job and finally start the book I've been planning for a while now, travel to my home country and build my genealogical tree, volunteer some of my time to the OCCRP or ACLU, etc.. It's not about not working. It's about working on the stuff I really do want to work on, without the threat of scarcity if I don't 'increase shareholder value'.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#20

Post by SavantIdiot »

kevinwang wrote: post #5

This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...

This follow up is way more compelling because it deals with the reality. I'm jealous of the authors communication skills and their partner's: there are some very hard statements in there about feeling worthless and falling behind because of no job. I wonder of those words were spoken calmly, or shouted through tears.

Here are their discussions: https://livingafi.com/post-fire-relationship-disconnect/

TL;DR: He has to go back to work due to medical issues, and his relationship didn't work out. But he's still got his chin up and it's great.

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