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Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

montanafreepress.org

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Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#11

Post by mooreds »

black_puppydog wrote: post #7

"How to save a planet" just has an episode out on the same topic: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet/76hmbge/soil-... I found it an interesting listen. Of course it's a fairly shallow entry into the topic, but that's what they are about after all; get you interested, give you pointers for more if you feel like it. Just too bad they'll go spotify-only and thus seize to be a podcast... I'll have to stop rec…

> Just too bad they'll go spotify-only and thus seize to be a podcast... I'll have to stop recommending (and listening...)

Yes, that bums me out too. It must make economic sense (for both parties; presumably the data in the app and exclusive content is a win for Spotify), but it's a real bummer that they are moving from a format that lets me, the listener, control how I want to listen, to a format that requires me to download an app. Not gonna happen, but companies will always try to build walled gardens.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#12

Post by hanniabu »

stevespang wrote: post #9

Most apparent was the $200,000 in annual costs one of the farming operations saved by dumping the agro-chemical suppliers herbicides and pesticides.

I think I read that many farmers are required to use them by contract. If that's the case then a lot of farmers don't have that luxury.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#13

Post by _huayra_ »

mooreds wrote: post #11
black_puppydog wrote: post #7

"How to save a planet" just has an episode out on the same topic: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet/76hmbge/soil-... I found it an interesting listen. Of course it's a fairly shallow entry into the topic, but that's what they are about after all; get you interested, give you pointers for more if you feel like it. Just too bad they'll go spotify-only and thus seize to be a podcast... I'll have to stop rec…

> Just too bad they'll go spotify-only and thus seize to be a podcast... I'll have to stop recommending (and listening...) Yes, that bums me out too. It must make economic sense (for both parties; presumably the data in the app and exclusive content is a win for Spotify), but it's a real bummer that they are moving from a format that lets me, the listener, control how I want to listen, to a format that requires me to…

I don't know why they just don't use something like Acast which will take care of distribution (or maybe others I don't know of).

The worst part of it is that Spotify's android app is buggy. Actually, that's an understatement: it's garbage. I shouldn't have it hang waiting for network connection just to navigate the offline portions of the app (e.g. downloaded podcasts). Anyone who writes a simple "music player" android app in a weekend or two could handle that case far better.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#14

Post by kickout »

coldcode wrote: post #5

Like everything there are costs and benefits; sometimes people only focus on the benefits of "modern" practices and forget the costs associated with them, like stripping the soil, and the expense and side effects of chemicals. Finding a better approach means taking risks and trying new ideas. This applies to programming as well as growing food.

Correct, but the current economic incentive structure is set up for short term profits and nobody really cares about the soil quality (except perhaps farmers that own the ground they farm; which even then they are to survive long enough to adapt soil-healthy practices).

Right now, farmers (corn/soy/wheat/cotton) are reward on quantity, so they need to increase production and keep costs down. Rightly or wrongly, the prevailing thought is to increase yields rather than cuts costs.

There are news systems thinking approaches slowly gaining steam (as the original article is about), but the reality is these things are economically risky. This is why the government needs to divert agricultural subsidy money from its existing criteria to one that requires practices like cover cropping. Importantly the money is already there, we just need to shift how its disbursed and start incentivizing more sustainable practices

https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17833

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#15

Post by datavirtue »

I just got back from touring Oregon and Washington and I got to see a lot of fascinating agriculture. Primarily hazelnut trees along with some berries other speciality crops and "hay."

The nut tree farmers need some help. They are spraying water scattershot to soak the ground. What's more is that they have the ground prepared as perfectly flat bare soil--I presume to make automated harvesting possible.

It looks like a lot of resources are allocated to this rather imprecise method of irrigation and as the droughts and heat persist I could see this failing to scale. It doesn't look like it scales very well even in good times.

I was wondering, given the very organized situation of the trees and ground, why are they not using direct or site-based (drip?) irrigation? It would definitely change the watering process from one of rolling and unrolling irrigation line and towing of sprinklers (water canons?) to one where you would automate water delivery via a network of lines with computers and have workers monitor and repair lines as needed.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#16

Post by kickout »

hanniabu wrote: post #12
stevespang wrote: post #9

Most apparent was the $200,000 in annual costs one of the farming operations saved by dumping the agro-chemical suppliers herbicides and pesticides.

I think I read that many farmers are required to use them by contract. If that's the case then a lot of farmers don't have that luxury.

No, just no. This is 100% false. You are not required to use ANY chemical on ANY crop in the united states. It's it 100% a voluntary decision. Why so many people make the decision to use these chemicals is another discussion.

Chemicals like roundup where so effective they changed agriculture production in unforeseen ways (like we lost institutional knowledge on how to successfully grow crops without them). The fact that mother nature is rendering all chemicals (glyposate, glufosinate, dicamba, 2,4-d) ineffective is predictable. Mother nature also had the mechanisms to combat these chemicals, but it happened quicker than most people thought.

We also didn't have 2nd and 3rd generation tools (re: not chemicals) ready to go when the chemicals failed. So we're stuck on treadmill.

There are solutions though...

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#17

Post by kickout »

stevespang wrote: post #9

Most apparent was the $200,000 in annual costs one of the farming operations saved by dumping the agro-chemical suppliers herbicides and pesticides.

The number is high, but farming in generally is a high risk bet.

I often say to people, I need to spend (i.e risk) $100,000 for the chance to make $20,000-$30,000 if everything goes correctly. One major event and you just lost 100K. Scale up or down depending on the size of the farm.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#18

Post by gruez »

stevespang wrote: post #9

Most apparent was the $200,000 in annual costs one of the farming operations saved by dumping the agro-chemical suppliers herbicides and pesticides.

Presumably these expenses have benefits, otherwise companies wouldn't be using them? It's like saying a company saved $200k by dumping their computers... so they can do everything on paper.

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#19

Post by AmrMostafa »

algoatecorn wrote: post #10
kaycebasques wrote: post #2

Has anyone here undergone a soil restoration project (big or small)? Did you happen to blog about the progress? There's so much I don't know, like how you even determine that your soil is degraded, or how you measure progress.

To determine the quality of your soil, you can perform a soil test. In the US, you will most likely find your local university offering this service through their extension agency. It will probably cost around 30 dollars, and you will need to probe samples from different locations on the property. They will assess and give you results. Some of the metrics are: concentration of major nutrients, organic matter content,…

In the US, your local National Resources Conservation Service office also provides this service. Costs $7 - $10.

Source: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb116...

Re: Organic and regenerative agriculture are revitalizing rural Montana economies

#20

Post by mastax »

datavirtue wrote: post #15

I just got back from touring Oregon and Washington and I got to see a lot of fascinating agriculture. Primarily hazelnut trees along with some berries other speciality crops and "hay." The nut tree farmers need some help. They are spraying water scattershot to soak the ground. What's more is that they have the ground prepared as perfectly flat bare soil--I presume to make automated harvesting possible. It looks like…

Drip irrigation works best when delivering water directly to the roots of small annual plants. Trees have large root systems, and are planted closely enough that you need to water the entire ground. Perhaps a network of smaller sprayers below the leaf canopy would reduce evaporative losses.
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