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Are animals more conscious than we are?

erikhoel.substack.com

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Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#11
post #3

How do you wire up the “conscious-o-meter”? What would a function for mapping consciousness to a quantity look like? How about [thoughts, emotions, sensations] .sum { |p| p.frequency * p.complexity } Collecting the data is left as an exercise for the student.

You have to define “thoughts, emotions, sensations” and “complexity” first.

Pain, for example, counts as all 3, and some would say it’s simple while others might call it complex.

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#12
post #5

I am not sure what this article is trying to accomplish. Consciousness might be binary, so rabbits might have it? Can you define consciousness at all?

Just shitposting: How about “the number of bits a subsection of a system is able to encode about the rest of the system surrounding it”

I appreciate about HN that your, fairly amusing comment is "shitposting." :-)

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#13

I am not sure what this article is trying to accomplish. Consciousness might be binary, so rabbits might have it? Can you define consciousness at all?

He can speak for himself, so I'm not interpreting him here, but:

This was an excellent article. To me "consciousness" cannot be thought of as binary, i.e. humans have it, no other creature does. That's the classical, religious view.

Rather it's just an illusion your brain puts on for you, and rabbits get a different illusion. So it's silly to say "animals are more conscious." They have a different consciousness. Go ahead and google "what is it like to be a bat."

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#15

I am not sure what this article is trying to accomplish. Consciousness might be binary, so rabbits might have it? Can you define consciousness at all?

Isn't consciousness the feeling of existing?

Well the problem is that science makes predictions, and that is all.

If we want to talk scientifically about consciousness then we need to be able to make predictions about it and test those... then refine our ideas.

Up until that point its metaphysics or religion. Do I agree that rabbits are probably somewhat conscious? Yes. Do I know what that MEANS? No.

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#16
Since there is no technical definition (not to speak of a measure of degree) of consciousness, we could assume that it is very likely, statistically. All life forms have undergone the same amount of evolution, after all. And even if we are wrong, this assumption would do this world great good.

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#17

I am not sure what this article is trying to accomplish. Consciousness might be binary, so rabbits might have it? Can you define consciousness at all?

He can speak for himself, so I'm not interpreting him here, but: This was an excellent article. To me "consciousness" cannot be thought of as binary, i.e. humans have it, no other creature does. That's the classical, religious view. Rather it's just an illusion your brain puts on for you, and rabbits get a different illusion. So it's silly to say "animals are more conscious." They have a different consciousness. Go a…

Honestly, I thought your view was the default of most people?

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#18

I am not sure what this article is trying to accomplish. Consciousness might be binary, so rabbits might have it? Can you define consciousness at all?

The author isn’t trying to answer a philosophical or scientific question, but instead just commenting on how we often have aesthetic views of consciousness. So just like he feels like the man on the subway is conscious due to his expressed emotions, he also feels like the rabbit is conscious due to the liveliness of its movements. That’s contrasted with his own view of himself, which while ironically he knows he is conscious, he feels his lack of vigor is a huge limitation.

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#19
Unclear what "more" means in relation to consciousness. More vivid? More varied? More aware? All or some of these? Just because our behavioral expressions seem subdued compared to animals (but do they really?), it doesn't follow that their inner experience has "more" of anything.

Re: Are animals more conscious than we are?

#20

Unclear what "more" means in relation to consciousness. More vivid? More varied? More aware? All or some of these? Just because our behavioral expressions seem subdued compared to animals (but do they really?), it doesn't follow that their inner experience has "more" of anything.

The rationale that the uncontrollable feelings convey more consciousness doesn’t follow for me either. Our own ability to reason about the state of our being, threats to our safety and a command over what we do seems reasonable that humans are experiencing a consciousness that animals do not enjoy. Perhaps I overlook the author’s point here.
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