Why North America's killer heat scares me • Hacker News Board

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#11

Post by user-the-name » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #3

So one question I've had for a while is if we are currently facing such a catastrophe with increased global heat why don't we go ahead and start conducting massive explosions to kick dust up into the air. When Krakatoa went off it caused global cooling throughout the entire world because of the amount of matter it introduced into the air so why don't we do the same right now at least as a stopgap measure if things ar…

I mean, that shouldn't be hard to answer, should it?

We can't predict the exact outcome, and risk taking on even bigger problems. Those kinds of events tend to cause crop failures and famine.

And, the only explosions of that scale are nuclear weapons.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#12

Post by hall0ween » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #3

So one question I've had for a while is if we are currently facing such a catastrophe with increased global heat why don't we go ahead and start conducting massive explosions to kick dust up into the air. When Krakatoa went off it caused global cooling throughout the entire world because of the amount of matter it introduced into the air so why don't we do the same right now at least as a stopgap measure if things ar…

fear of unintended consequences, i imagine. unless it goes off without a hitch, there will be much blame.

for me, it's a conversation of responsibility. its obvious that we (as a species) have not been responsible with the resources of this planet (see consumer culture, disposal culture, and planned obsolescence). it makes more sense to attack the problem at its causes rather than band aids.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#13

Post by throwaway5752 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #3

So one question I've had for a while is if we are currently facing such a catastrophe with increased global heat why don't we go ahead and start conducting massive explosions to kick dust up into the air. When Krakatoa went off it caused global cooling throughout the entire world because of the amount of matter it introduced into the air so why don't we do the same right now at least as a stopgap measure if things ar…

1 - That was the result of sulfur dioxide more than particulates. 2 - Sulfur dioxide harms the ozone layer. 3 - Krakatoa was 4 times larger than the yield of the largest fusion/thermonuclear bomb ever. 4 - We'd have to do that ever 2 years for centuries.

It is not practical and wouldn't work even if it was practical.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#14

Post by baby » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

There’s the idea that any significant change starts with yourself. Ghandi and stuff. Yet, I can’t stop thinking that as humans our role is to multiply and exploit our habitat, and that trying to fight this is meaningless. In the end we’re doomed anyway, so is accelerating the inevitable that bad? Especially if it’s making the lives of people better right now?

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#15

Post by liotier » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

You feel powerless to do anything about climate change ? You feel your individual actions such as recycling are meaningless in the face of the incoming tsunami ? That is because they are. If you want meaningful, get into political action !

"For consumers in the industrialized world to signal virtue with their individual actions is irrelevant at best. Countries like Sweden that have had success in decarbonizing, didn’t reach their accomplishment with individual sacrifices, but by generating energy cleanly (with nuclear power instead of fossil fuel). In my opinion, the individual action that matters most is voting. Climate change is a problem governments will solve, not individuals. It is strange that people think the world’s most challenging problem can be solved by voluntary actions from billions of people — this is why we have representative governments" - https://www.aspeninstitute.org/blog-posts/individual-actions...

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#16

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

> For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day.

Tangential, but recycling is much less effective the reduced consumption.

I think the problem with policy makers not moving on this front is a reflection of people not doing so. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to make people even believe in something that would require them to sacrifice their lifestyle, let alone actually commit to doing something about it. To that end, the continued talk about climate change is necessary to hammer into our thick skulls that yes indeed this is a real problem and we really should do something about it and pressure our policy makers to make it a priority even if it means we can't have the same luxurious lifestyle we're accustomed to.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#17

Post by 35fbe7d3d5b9 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

> For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day.

Just remember: those same factories are operated by companies that have spent millions over decades to convince people that individual solutions exist to a systemic problem.

If you feel powerless, try looking for systemic opportunities to drive change.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#18

Post by dragontamer » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

liotier wrote: post #15

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

You feel powerless to do anything about climate change ? You feel your individual actions such as recycling are meaningless in the face of the incoming tsunami ? That is because they are. If you want meaningful, get into political action ! "For consumers in the industrialized world to signal virtue with their individual actions is irrelevant at best. Countries like Sweden that have had success in decarbonizing, didn’…

It was extremely difficult getting my knowledgeable and smart sister to vaccinate for COVID19, an eminent disease that we both agreed was killing hundreds-of-thousands of Americans. Fortunately, I pushed her hard enough with a little bit of help from the Demon Slayer: Mugen Train movie (we will go to theaters if you vaccinate).

Honestly: I don't know how I would have done it without that movie, lol.

Now my sister's sister-in-law also is an anti-vaxxer. Lets call her "C".

------------

Frankly, my political capital is still 100% on COVID19. I don't have enough political capital left to spend on climate change.

If I can't convince these people of the eminent dangers of COVID19, and the incredible relative safety of the vaccines... then climate change is hopeless.

C isn't dumb. But she's part of a family of conservatives. "Conservatism" is part of their identity, and right now, that means that they want to believe that the virus will go away on its own, that masks are stupid, the vaccine is made by Bill Gates (wtf??) etc. etc. etc. And climate change is fake is part of that identity they hold.

Pushing this part of their identity away from them is extremely difficult. Just pushing one concept onto them (ex: get the freaking vaccine) is hard enough.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#19

Post by philips » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

This Podcast episode[1] and related show notes is helpful in breaking down individual actions vs systemic changes that you can support.

Personally I have gone through several bouts of feeling hopeless about the situation but sustained learning about solutions and the work others are doing has been helpful. Also, talking to family and friends about solutions helps too.

[1] https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet/xjh53gn/is-yo...

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#20

Post by zbrozek » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

powderpig wrote: post #9

hpoe wrote: post #3

So one question I've had for a while is if we are currently facing such a catastrophe with increased global heat why don't we go ahead and start conducting massive explosions to kick dust up into the air. When Krakatoa went off it caused global cooling throughout the entire world because of the amount of matter it introduced into the air so why don't we do the same right now at least as a stopgap measure if things ar…

I think all geo-engineering is a bad idea. The least worse idea is sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere. The consequences of any geo-engineering ideas are not well understood.

I could imagine something a bit better controlled could be ok.

Large areas of solar panels, engineered to reflect as much as they can't use, would be a good double benefit. Excess electricity could be opportunistically used for GHG capture or the panels could maybe flip over and become mirrors.

An orbital umbrella that we could modulate such that we can deal with unanticipated consequences could also be ok.

I'm sure there are tons of other approaches that give control in both directions on reasonable time scales. Obviously cutting emissions Right Now is super important, and megaprojects shouldn't distract from that.