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Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

buildyourownlisp.com

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Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#11

Post by desine »

I've had this in my bookmarks for awhile, intending to work through it. I think I can probably even do it solo without the guide, at this point. After years of programming, and learning (or at least playing with) many languages, I've come to a philosophical conclusion of sorts: C and Lisp should be the two languages all students start with, in my opinion. Probably SICP style Scheme education, and classic simple C89. C is the barest of the high level, the least abstracted, the most work. Students should build their own data structures, memory management, improved string handling, etc. I think this gives a really solid foundation of what other languages' features actually do, their benefits and trade offs. Then Lisp, to show what metaprogramming can do, and demonstrate the power that a language can have.

From there, sure, learn C++, Java, Rust, Go, Node.js, whatever toolset matches your industry. Start with the fundamentals, though.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#13

Post by phlalexsh »

moonchild wrote: post #9

Don't Build Your Own Lisp provides some harsh—and IMO totally justified—criticism: https://gist.github.com/no-defun-allowed/7e3e238c959e27d4919...

The criticism may be justified but jeez the person who wrote that comes off like a HUGE asshole. Reminds me of people I've worked with in the past who think they know everything and have an arrogance so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#14

Post by astrange »

phlalexsh wrote: post #13
moonchild wrote: post #9

Don't Build Your Own Lisp provides some harsh—and IMO totally justified—criticism: https://gist.github.com/no-defun-allowed/7e3e238c959e27d4919...

The criticism may be justified but jeez the person who wrote that comes off like a HUGE asshole. Reminds me of people I've worked with in the past who think they know everything and have an arrogance so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Every Lisp programmer I've ever met is like this. I don't know why, but it's probably Erik Naggum's fault. They used to be called "Lisp weenies" and now would be called "abusers".

(The Clojure and Racket people are supposedly nice.)

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#15

Post by Koshkin »

phlalexsh wrote: post #13
moonchild wrote: post #9

Don't Build Your Own Lisp provides some harsh—and IMO totally justified—criticism: https://gist.github.com/no-defun-allowed/7e3e238c959e27d4919...

The criticism may be justified but jeez the person who wrote that comes off like a HUGE asshole. Reminds me of people I've worked with in the past who think they know everything and have an arrogance so thick you could cut it with a knife.

"I hate C with a passion." There it is, their problem.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#16

Post by Koshkin »

Building a simple Lisp interpreter which can be then embedded in your project is the single best thing that you can do. Configuration? Solved. Serialization? Solved. Separating the application logic from the gory details of its implementation? Done.

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#18

Post by guenthert »

astrange wrote: post #14
phlalexsh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criticism may be justified but jeez the person who wrote that comes off like a HUGE asshole. Reminds me of people I've worked with in the past who think they know everything and have an arrogance so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Every Lisp programmer I've ever met is like this. I don't know why, but it's probably Erik Naggum's fault. They used to be called "Lisp weenies" and now would be called "abusers". (The Clojure and Racket people are supposedly nice.)

I've seen Erik Naggum's name mentioned in this context before, but years ago I looked through a bunch of his contribution on comp.lang.lisp and couldn't see anything justifying this reputation. His articles rather looked quite eloquent and thought-through. Could you provide an example?

Re: Learn C and build your own Lisp (2014)

#19

Post by dang »

The main previous threads appear to be

Learn C and Build Your Own Lisp (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17478489 - July 2018 (86 comments)

Learn C and build your own Lisp - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10474717 - Oct 2015 (49 comments)

Learn C and build your own Lisp - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7530427 - April 2014 (145 comments)

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