The End of Ownership • Hacker News Board

Re: The End of Ownership

#11

Post by zepto » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

adamrezich wrote: post #3

api wrote: post #2

It is way, way past time for a new tech-individualist project. The PC revolution was not merely a product of market forces or of legislation. It was the product of a movement that included things like the Homebrew Computer Club and the Whole Earth Catalog. One of the biggest rocks we need to move is to push against this tide of cynicism, futility, and crazy conspiracy mumbo-jumbo. All these things keep people from do…

I completely agree with your first paragraph but struggle to make any connection between it and your second paragraph

In many ways it makes little difference whether the conspirators are lizard aliens, or a cabal of capitalists in a smoke filled room.

Re: The End of Ownership

#12

Post by mindslight » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

api wrote: post #5

adamrezich wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your first paragraph but struggle to make any connection between it and your second paragraph

The relationship is definitely tangential, but the idea is that people need to start doing actual things instead of imaginary things to fight for their autonomy.

I agree with you, but something bothers me about your wording. I think it's the idea that the people doing the conspiratorial-imaginary things could switch course and do something productive. I very much wish that were the case. But the times I engage with the conspiratorial people and try to convey that there are ways to regain your autonomy, they seem to end up "othering" me for not just echoing their mumbo jumbo talking points.

I'm talking something very simple like trying to get across to them that GPS satellites do not "track you", but rather it's software on your phone itself that is betraying your location. They just don't seem interested when I say that they can choose better apps, or even point out that my phone gives up much much less surveillance data than theirs. It's like they don't even consider it possible to self-actualize, and all the conspiratorial nonsense is just a coping mechanism.

Perhaps this could change with an off-the-shelf Free anti-surveillance device (just use this and your problems will be solved), that would gain popularity via social proof among themselves. I just don't think the energy, money, or interest to develop such devices are going to come from said communities.

Re: The End of Ownership

#13

Post by Havoc » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 12:41 AM UTC

And the Corps are getting bolder with it and the skill level needed to circumvent it is growing.

And in some cases it’s getting impossible. Even a good self hosted voice assistant can’t really keep up with Siri and friends

Re: The End of Ownership

#14

Post by ElevenLathe » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 12:51 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #11

adamrezich wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your first paragraph but struggle to make any connection between it and your second paragraph

In many ways it makes little difference whether the conspirators are lizard aliens, or a cabal of capitalists in a smoke filled room.

...or a cabal of capitalists who never really meet at all but just "coordinate" via the market, media, armies of accountants and lawyers, etc.

Re: The End of Ownership

#15

Post by zepto » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 12:53 AM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #14

zepto wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many ways it makes little difference whether the conspirators are lizard aliens, or a cabal of capitalists in a smoke filled room.

...or a cabal of capitalists who never really meet at all but just "coordinate" via the market, media, armies of accountants and lawyers, etc.

Indeed - if your mind is fixated on that cabal and it leads to hopelessness, it is just the same.

Re: The End of Ownership

#16

Post by aaron-santos » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 2:04 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #12

api wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relationship is definitely tangential, but the idea is that people need to start doing actual things instead of imaginary things to fight for their autonomy.

I agree with you, but something bothers me about your wording. I think it's the idea that the people doing the conspiratorial-imaginary things could switch course and do something productive. I very much wish that were the case. But the times I engage with the conspiratorial people and try to convey that there are ways to regain your autonomy, they seem to end up "othering" me for not just echoing their mumbo jumbo t…

The conspiratorial premise is an external locus of control. Everything else is world building.

Re: The End of Ownership

#17

Post by quantified » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 5:24 AM UTC

topkai22 wrote: post #4

This article is talking about electronics and integrated digital-mechanical systems, but right now there is also a big financial premium on ownership in real estate as well. Not sure if these are linked, but I wonder if long term low inflation and interest rates makes subscription revenue more attractive than in a more volatile environment. Seems like probably.

The nice thing about prime real estate is that the supply is relatively limited compared to manufactured goods. Letting any noticeable concentration of ownership occur will be a pretty bad thing. Oligopoly will be just as bad as monopoly.

Re: The End of Ownership

#18

Post by quantified » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 5:24 AM UTC

c22 wrote: post #9

If you're paying rent then it's not the end of ownership . If anything it's a doubling-down on the concept.

Just a question of _whose_ ownership, eh?

Re: The End of Ownership

#19

Post by Doxin » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 8:04 AM UTC

quantified wrote: post #17

topkai22 wrote: post #4

This article is talking about electronics and integrated digital-mechanical systems, but right now there is also a big financial premium on ownership in real estate as well. Not sure if these are linked, but I wonder if long term low inflation and interest rates makes subscription revenue more attractive than in a more volatile environment. Seems like probably.

The nice thing about prime real estate is that the supply is relatively limited compared to manufactured goods. Letting any noticeable concentration of ownership occur will be a pretty bad thing. Oligopoly will be just as bad as monopoly.

If real estate is being used on a subscription basis (a.k.a rented out) there's still ownership going on.

Re: The End of Ownership

#20

Post by doggodaddo78 » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #10

Noumenon72 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly conglomerates want your money, not your life. It's going to be governments cutting people off. For example, Pakistan cutting your cell service if you don't get vaccinated. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pakistan-covid-vaccine-punjab-t...

Monopoly conglomerates what your money and are indifferent to your life. See cigarette companies or the recent Texas power issues. Or health insurers. It's going to be businesses cutting people off if they don't fit a mold. Because being outside the mold costs extra upkeep they don't want.

Yeap. When it's more profitable to let you die (based on QALY calculations), health insurance companies will deny coverage. They only respond to their money and bad press.