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Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

extremetech.com

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Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#11

Post by cbs »

icarus_drowning wrote: post #4

I find it interesting that the article begins by talking about how great it is that Google+ puts pressure on facebook and then immediately tries to paint the service as a bad thing. Intrinsic to the claim that G+ is a long-awaited challenge to the "monopolistic" facebook is the obvious fact that Google is one of the few entities with the power to challenge the facebook behemoth. So why then does the author then compl…

>So why then does the author then complain that Google is too big?

Because gray areas and mixed bags can exist. g+ doesn't have to be perfect to do things right, and doing some things right doesn't fix other problem areas. There can simultaneously be upsides and downsides of the same thing.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#12

Post by bonch »

icarus_drowning wrote: post #4

I find it interesting that the article begins by talking about how great it is that Google+ puts pressure on facebook and then immediately tries to paint the service as a bad thing. Intrinsic to the claim that G+ is a long-awaited challenge to the "monopolistic" facebook is the obvious fact that Google is one of the few entities with the power to challenge the facebook behemoth. So why then does the author then compl…

The transition is made in the first sentence of the third paragraph: "The problem with this rationale, however rosy it may seem, is that you’re simply moving from one internet juggernaut to another." He first explained the pros of Google+ and then moved onto the cons.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#13

Post by bonch »

pettazz wrote: post #2

This is like saying you should be a citizen of more than one country, so in case you do something illegal in one, you can always flee to another. Why don't you just not break the ToS?

You're comparing becoming a citizen in a foreign country to signing up with a social network? There are a hell of a lot more barriers to becoming a foreign citizen, such as physical location, than signing up for a social network and giving it all your personal data.

Google is a much bigger data-collecting, privacy-breaching behemoth than Facebook, so signing up with them should be an action that warrants thought.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#14

Post by pak »

FUD at its best. Not only is the Facebook TOS just as convoluted and subject to arbitrary BS as Google's but for every story about some user having his crap deleted on a Google property, there's 10 people complaining that Facebook did the same to them.

Things regarding nudity, etc. -- does he not realize Facebook has the same rules? You can't post a profile pic of your buttocks on Facebook. Dirty content or under-age user gets profile deleted, news at 11. At least I can "sign out" of Facebook, ha ha, didn't you start off the article bawwwwing over how prevalent Facebook Connect is?

Anybody that uses Facebook or Google+ has already deemed the above risks as acceptable, so none of this is really an issue for them. The benefit we all get out of two major social network players is that there's at least a chance that they will try to play nicer with their users out of fear that the competition will start to pull ahead if they don't.

The real endgame that I'm hoping for is that Google promotes some majorly open APIs for integration between social networks, kind of like Diaspora was except now done right and with major backing, and then social networking becomes a decentralized and commoditized service the way blogging is now. (Then Google wins, because their search engine is the center of the universe again, and the social web is just a commoditized paper canvas with their ads all over it.)

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#15

Post by ChuckMcM »

icarus_drowning wrote: post #4

I find it interesting that the article begins by talking about how great it is that Google+ puts pressure on facebook and then immediately tries to paint the service as a bad thing. Intrinsic to the claim that G+ is a long-awaited challenge to the "monopolistic" facebook is the obvious fact that Google is one of the few entities with the power to challenge the facebook behemoth. So why then does the author then compl…

There are a lot of 'anti' Google+ articles coming out at the moment. Google+ is a trending topic, positive Google+ coverage is common, so negative Google+ coverage stands out.

Now as to whether or not the author of the cited article makes their case or not, I'm with other folks who agree that if you're using gmail/docs/picassa/talk then you're probably already have this risk and Google+ neither adds or decreases that risk.

What it does point out, and the author doesn't explore, is that the Google+ infrastructure, binding these Google properties together, is what makes Google+ interesting. And it might be even more interesting if there was some sort of meta social operating system thing which would let you plug in the components you wanted (your email provider, your chat provider, etc).

I expect that if someone could pull that off they would get even more attention.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#16

Post by vannevar »

FTA: You’re taking your chips from Facebook and investing them in Google+. This might be a satisfactory solution in the short term, but do you have any rational reason to believe that it’s better in the long term?

The author seems to be under the mistaken impression that people are moving to G+ because they trust Google more than Facebook. I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason I'm switching is that Facebook is poorly thought out and lacks any real tools for managing my social network. It's just a big multi-threaded comment system with photo- and video-sharing thrown in. Circles is such an obvious improvement that it boggles my mind that Facebook hasn't managed to deploy something like it. Too busy watching movies about themselves, I guess.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#17

Post by Daniel14 »

I feel like the author already knows the answer to this problem: "you either keep your content clean, or host [it] elsewhere." I agree there could be border-line issues with the legal system, but that mostly is about Google not getting sued, and having to comply with the law they operate in. (Still, Google should have a hotline.)

The author listed almost every complaint people have against Google since its founding, but the main point remains this: Google is an extremely successful company, and if you choose to use the best products, those are often owned by Google (Chrome, Google Search, Gmail etc.). However, you don't have to. If you don't like what Google does, there's always an alternative you can easily switch to - and that, imho, is the big distinction between Google and a monopoly.

(I might have to add that I see a lot of the author's sentiments being pretty wide-spread, at least here in Europe Google is considered a pretty evil, privacy-invading company they don't want to give any more personal information.)

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#18

Post by pettazz »

bonch wrote: post #13
pettazz wrote: post #2

This is like saying you should be a citizen of more than one country, so in case you do something illegal in one, you can always flee to another. Why don't you just not break the ToS?

You're comparing becoming a citizen in a foreign country to signing up with a social network? There are a hell of a lot more barriers to becoming a foreign citizen, such as physical location, than signing up for a social network and giving it all your personal data. Google is a much bigger data-collecting, privacy-breaching behemoth than Facebook, so signing up with them should be an action that warrants thought.

It was a metaphor. I wasn't exactly saying that it was exactly the same. And yeah, it does warrant thought, but the whole point of this article is that when one site owns all your web apps, if you piss them off, you lose access to all of those at once. I'm wondering why people don't just not dick around. I've never gotten kicked/banned from anything by accident. Just don't post a picture of your ass on G+ and your docs will be fine.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#19

Post by Daniel14 »

pak wrote: post #14

FUD at its best. Not only is the Facebook TOS just as convoluted and subject to arbitrary BS as Google's but for every story about some user having his crap deleted on a Google property, there's 10 people complaining that Facebook did the same to them. Things regarding nudity, etc. -- does he not realize Facebook has the same rules? You can't post a profile pic of your buttocks on Facebook. Dirty content or under-age…

I agree with most of your points - However, I think the author's main complaint was that if you do anything somehow objectionable on any Google service, then all of them get blocked. I don't see why that's the case, but as long as it continues, his point is valid - Facebook won't also ban your email for posting nudity. They can only smash one egg, not your entire internet basket.

Re: Google+: One too many eggs in the Google basket

#20

Post by pettazz »

gojomo wrote: post #6
pettazz wrote: post #2

This is like saying you should be a citizen of more than one country, so in case you do something illegal in one, you can always flee to another. Why don't you just not break the ToS?

Because the ToS are infantilizing, designed to water-down human interactions for maximum advertiser-friendliness?

How are they infantilizing? I've never had a problem with anyone's ToS. They don't allow nudity, don't post nudity. It's really not that hard not to break them unless they have arbitrary bullshit rules like "YOU CAN'T SAY APPLE ON WEDNESDAY" or if, like Facebook, all your data is their property.
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