How Parking Destroys Cities • Hacker News Board

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#11

Post by zemvpferreira » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

adav wrote: post #2

Should be: How Parking Destroys American Cities

No, this is my exact sentiment in Lisbon, Portugal - Europe. A city going on 1000 years. Our parking requirements for new construction and our addiction to free curb parking everywhere have destroyed mobility. There are unnecessary jams at all times of the day thanks to idiotic parking.

I drive daily and have nothing against cars. I hope that small semi-self-driving electric cars will eventually replace our dying public transit. There are many great things about the car. But I hate parking with a passion. In Lisbon we could easily double or triple the speed and amount of traffic flow without any investment by getting rid of a few thousand spots of street parking. Road space should be for people to go about their business, not for storing inert objects.

My hope against hope is that will one day we abolish street parking and invest in world-class automated below-ground parking. Let 1000 underground auto lifts bloom. Done properly it might even jump-start a new globally competitive manufacturing industry, something we haven't had since the 80s.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#12

Post by jonvk » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

eafkuor wrote: post #8

HPsquared wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi not an option?

Last time I checked taxis are pretty expensive. Not everyone wants or can spend 10 or 20 euros every time they need to go somewhere.

Free parking is also quite expensive, although it's hard to see.

It increases the costs of private properties when it's part of the property, and public parking increases government expenditures. It also consumes lots of otherwise very valuable space.

That's without factoring in the increased costs on social structures from the extra drivers on the road when there is more parking space.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#13

Post by hobofan » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

ldoughty wrote: post #6

HPsquared wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi not an option?

If you're going to work, that might be 15-30% of your income to pay for the trip

If you are going to work as a freelancer and bill commute as working time (as you should, to disincentivize useless meetings), you might even make money while being driven.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#14

Post by zozbot234 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #5

Shaddox wrote: post #3

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or train, or take your car and spin around for 30 minutes at your destination trying to find somewhere to leave your car. Neither of these are very good. I'd rather one problem be solved than have a choice between 3 awful compromises.

The answer to that is not more parking; it's cheap rideshare / carpooling / taxi when weather is bad, and incentivising usage of space-efficient bikes and motorbikes when weather is good. In fact, London's taxi culture already has (or had) that sort of approach.

The answer also involves congestion pricing for parking spots, so you don't have to spin around so much in your car looking for a free spot. Of course, the higher prices involved would themselves create a higher incentive for these alternate solutions.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#15

Post by zemvpferreira » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #5

Shaddox wrote: post #3

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or train, or take your car and spin around for 30 minutes at your destination trying to find somewhere to leave your car. Neither of these are very good. I'd rather one problem be solved than have a choice between 3 awful compromises.

The answer to that is not more parking; it's cheap rideshare / carpooling / taxi when weather is bad, and incentivising usage of space-efficient bikes and motorbikes when weather is good. In fact, London's taxi culture already has (or had) that sort of approach.

More parking can definitely be part of the solution. Above or underground automated parking cylinders can fit many cars, especially in the periphery of the city center where people can then use a short taxi ride/walk to their final destination.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#16

Post by locallost » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:14 AM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #10

poooogles wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycle?

Doesn't and can't actually replace a car over a certain size of the city. It is said that in the Netherlands 27% of all trips are done by bicycle - IIRC it's the highest percentage in Europe. What is not mentioned though is that 50% are done by car. If you look at the distance traveled it's 75% car, 8% bicycle. The cities in that country that have a higher trip percentage are tiny, 100k towns. Bicycles replace walkin…

68% of work and school related trips are by bicycle in Amsterdam. so obviously they replace quite a bit more than walking.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#17

Post by Isinlor » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:14 AM UTC

Shaddox wrote: post #3

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or train, or take your car and spin around for 30 minutes at your destination trying to find somewhere to leave your car. Neither of these are very good. I'd rather one problem be solved than have a choice between 3 awful compromises.

I use bike to go everywhere. It is a prefect solution:

1. Cheap

2. Takes very little space

3. Good for health

4. In a dense city almost as fast as a car; sometimes faster

For people who doubt biking is possible. In Finland there is a city near arctic circle called Oulu with population of around 100 000 people. They have 2h of day light in winter. Temperatures often go to -10 degrees centigrade. And 22% of all trips are done by bikes. Including children going to primary schools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZ0tXMSAfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#18

Post by adreamingsoul » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:14 AM UTC

Shaddox wrote: post #3

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or train, or take your car and spin around for 30 minutes at your destination trying to find somewhere to leave your car. Neither of these are very good. I'd rather one problem be solved than have a choice between 3 awful compromises.

Commuting to work, five days a week opens up a lot of possibilities. But it also becomes a source of many problems.

Your commute to and from work are now influenced by traffic. Some days are worse than others, but your boss doesn’t care as long as you are on time.

Fuel/electricity, maintenance, tires, and all the other costs for owning a vehicle add up to be a significant cost. And if you are already paying a premium to drive, might as well capitalise on that.

Eventually you move a little farther from work to buy a bigger house for less, and free up some of your income for other things. That 30 minute commute is now an hour and maybe less on a good day.

Well, if your going to spend two hours a day in a vehicle, might as well buy something more comfortable.

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#19

Post by soco » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

I hear this discussion also on this side of the pond and I just don't get it: why not reviving public transport? I can't see how even more car-friendly policies - self-driven cars or not - can make the roads more available... I'm in Switzerland and short or long distance, public transport gets you in comparable times with driving. Maybe not for some godforsaken places where you need to switch three buses, but 90% of the trips you're within 20% of the direct drive time (and parking time is never counted).

Re: How Parking Destroys Cities

#20

Post by wayoutthere » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

Shaddox wrote: post #3

I'm jealous of parking abundant American cities. In this part of the pond, your choices are between walking, taking a face-planted-against-the-window bus or train, or take your car and spin around for 30 minutes at your destination trying to find somewhere to leave your car. Neither of these are very good. I'd rather one problem be solved than have a choice between 3 awful compromises.

More parking just makes the sprawl worse and the traffic awful. Many Americans have commutes well over an hour each way because traffic is so bad. Doing so has a serious negative impact on quality of life and overall health since you’re sitting in a car so much.