I've considered actually subscribing to news media but the behaviour of the NYT and a few known others have left me not to trust the entire industry to behave responsibly with a subscription, so I am at least 1 anecdote of someone not subscribing because of knowledge of the cancellation process
The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
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Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#12A newspaper isn't a monolith and, by design, the members of the editorial board have very little connection to the business side of the newspaper. You're absolutely right to call out bad behavior of the subscription department, but the "liar, liar" heading is unfair.
Looking forward to read the editorial coverage of this story
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#13> I told the representative I wanted to cancel. Then I was offered reasons not to. I responded with “no thanks” each time. Then, I waited for the representative to reply and come back with several rounds of offers to get me not to cancel. On and on, the process went until I was finally allowed to leave. That's fairly easy to deal with. Answer every question, argument, and pitch from the representative with "please ca…
Indeed, I was planning to find a California VPN to avoid the chat/call, but really it took maybe 2 minutes of idle chat to deal with it. Even my low bar for BS wasn’t that triggered. honestly I was more hopefully that they’d renew the $1/month offer instead, but nothing.
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#14I've considered actually subscribing to news media but the behaviour of the NYT and a few known others have left me not to trust the entire industry to behave responsibly with a subscription, so I am at least 1 anecdote of someone not subscribing because of knowledge of the cancellation process
Excellent! This is exactly what I describe in the post. This is why dark patterns are bad for the business.
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#15Best way to ensure easy subscription cancelling is via an in-app purchase. Then cancelling is a few clicks without talking to anyone.
Indeed but that costs more. I got 12 months at $1/month as a promotional offer. If it lets me, I might restart it (even if I don’t read much at all)
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#16A newspaper isn't a monolith and, by design, the members of the editorial board have very little connection to the business side of the newspaper. You're absolutely right to call out bad behavior of the subscription department, but the "liar, liar" heading is unfair.
> A newspaper isn't a monolith
Neither is amazon.
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#17For me, https://privacy.com has been a lifesaver in situations like this. Can't cancel a subscription? Just cancel the card. Voilà!
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#18A newspaper isn't a monolith and, by design, the members of the editorial board have very little connection to the business side of the newspaper. You're absolutely right to call out bad behavior of the subscription department, but the "liar, liar" heading is unfair.
Given the NYT’s overall style and editorial choices these days, it’s a fair heading more broadly.
Prime case in point: They have elevated opinionated moral crusading over responsible and informative reporting. If moral activism is the value the organization purports to elevate, it’s fair to call the organization dishonest when it employs transparently immoral business practices. Whether the editorial board is involved or not.
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#19I called to cancel. I was offered $14/month promotion, and then after I agreed to the deal and gave them credit card they said I will be charged $14 every 4 weeks. I said agreed to $14/month, that's not the same as $14 every 4 weeks, because $14/month is $168 per year, but $14 every 4 weeks is $182.49 per year. They said they will charge $14 every 4 weeks, and I decided to cancel because of their scammy offer.
For years, every AT&T and Comcast salesperson I talked with quoted me megabytes per second instead of megabits per second.
They would insist that they were right if I ever asked them to clarify the units of measurement. One time the salesperson was so sure that he was right that he conferenced in a tech support person…who informed him they did not sell megabytes/second, only megabits. The salesperson was very confused.
I no longer even bother asking anymore.
Re: The New York Times uses the dark patterns it derides
#20A newspaper isn't a monolith and, by design, the members of the editorial board have very little connection to the business side of the newspaper. You're absolutely right to call out bad behavior of the subscription department, but the "liar, liar" heading is unfair.
Indeed. Obviously it's bad that the NYT is using these dark patterns. But it would be worse if the NYT would just stop to cover dark patterns, because of that. It's a sign of a working separation between the journalistic and business sides.