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Finl is not LaTeX

finl.xyz

11–20 of 47 posts

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#11
post #4

I think completing the rewrite[1] of Tectonic[2] (Rust-powered XeTeX) has bigger potential and it's already working in many cases. [1] https://github.com/crlf0710/tectonic [2] https://tectonic-typesetting.github.io/en-US/

What does [1] do over [2] ? I looked at the readme of [1] but it's just a fork of [2], so I'm not sure why [2] needs a rewrite? Is [1] just a rewrite of [2] in Rust?

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#12
post #4

I think completing the rewrite[1] of Tectonic[2] (Rust-powered XeTeX) has bigger potential and it's already working in many cases. [1] https://github.com/crlf0710/tectonic [2] https://tectonic-typesetting.github.io/en-US/

Why would Tectonic have big potential? Why is it noteworthy at all? What benefits does it provide compared to ConTeXt?

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#13
post #11
post #4

I think completing the rewrite[1] of Tectonic[2] (Rust-powered XeTeX) has bigger potential and it's already working in many cases. [1] https://github.com/crlf0710/tectonic [2] https://tectonic-typesetting.github.io/en-US/

What does [1] do over [2] ? I looked at the readme of [1] but it's just a fork of [2], so I'm not sure why [2] needs a rewrite? Is [1] just a rewrite of [2] in Rust?

Tectonic[2] is the Rust wrapper around C and C++ code of XeTeX. The fork rewrote everything, also aims to split it into separate crates that might be reused elsewhere, or to use some external crate instead of the own reimplementation.

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#14
post #9
post #4

I think completing the rewrite[1] of Tectonic[2] (Rust-powered XeTeX) has bigger potential and it's already working in many cases. [1] https://github.com/crlf0710/tectonic [2] https://tectonic-typesetting.github.io/en-US/

My goal with finl is not to re-create TeX but to reimagine it. The macro-oriented programming language is a big pain point, as are the whole concept of category codes. In many instances, LaTeX is still hemmed in by the constraints of ca 1980 computing technology. If you look through tex.web, you'll see things like weird string concatenations that were done in order to save a handful of bytes of memory. It was a radic…

I understand your motivation. The thing is, there were many attempts to reimagine TeX, and none of them succeeded. Not because there were bad ideas, far from that. It's a huge project requiring a significant development team.

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#15
post #8
post #5

As far as I understand LaTeX3 is basically ready, it's just that the developers decided to make it available as an optional environment rather than a replacement to LaTeX2e - which would render it incomparable with all the things. It's also not comprehensively documented, though there are introductions. Core development work, again as far as I understand, has now shifted automatically annotated pdfs (might be the wro…

Not exactly. Originally LaTeX3 was going to be a complete rewrite of LaTeX2e. In the last year or so, there was essentially a declaration of surrender and LaTeX2e+expl3/xparse is now LaTeX3 but still called LaTeX2e. There will never be a LaTeX3 exactly. Some issues with LaTeX development are essentially intractable. They're doable in theory (because TeX is Turing complete), but not in practice.

> Some issues with LaTeX development are essentially intractable.

Could you perhaps open this claim a little? What's wrong with the L3 programming layer? (https://www.alanshawn.com/latex3-tutorial/ - Already integrated to the format)

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#18
post #14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My goal with finl is not to re-create TeX but to reimagine it. The macro-oriented programming language is a big pain point, as are the whole concept of category codes. In many instances, LaTeX is still hemmed in by the constraints of ca 1980 computing technology. If you look through tex.web, you'll see things like weird string concatenations that were done in order to save a handful of bytes of memory. It was a radic…

I understand your motivation. The thing is, there were many attempts to reimagine TeX, and none of them succeeded. Not because there were bad ideas, far from that. It's a huge project requiring a significant development team.

Or one (1) Donald Knuth

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#19
I agree, as much as I like LaTeX, and what it produces, it is dated. It's missing modern features. Lots of stuff is clunky. The content part should be declarative programming. It should be functional underneath the hood. I think ggplot2 is maybe an example of declarative visualization creation. You just declare what is in the document, very clear structure. Perhaps there is some styling/rendering component you can tweak. Seems like a job for Haskell. Needs like a simple DSL in a sense though.

At least you can use Pandoc to turn old LaTeX documents into html/etc. I kind of like using tex flavoured markdown and just generating html with pandoc.

Re: Finl is not LaTeX

#20
post #14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My goal with finl is not to re-create TeX but to reimagine it. The macro-oriented programming language is a big pain point, as are the whole concept of category codes. In many instances, LaTeX is still hemmed in by the constraints of ca 1980 computing technology. If you look through tex.web, you'll see things like weird string concatenations that were done in order to save a handful of bytes of memory. It was a radic…

I understand your motivation. The thing is, there were many attempts to reimagine TeX, and none of them succeeded. Not because there were bad ideas, far from that. It's a huge project requiring a significant development team.

Plus a huge number of TeX packages have been made and used. You can't just ask people to leave all of that and learn a new language.
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