Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way • Hacker News Board

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#11

Post by JPKab » Sat, May 15, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #6

JPKab wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop... The most likely origin of this virus at this point, was an accidental lab leak due to a quirk in regulations where BSL 2 was the category approved for normal coronaviruses, and BSL 3 was reserved for the natural strains that already infected humans like SARS 1 and MERS. Unfortunately nobody in the lab bothered to question whether they should be using BSL…

And I'm sure I'll be downvoted to oblivion for even bring it up. But the evidence, as you've explained, has increasingly been mounting. I was all in on calling people Sinophobic for even suggesting this in the first few months. But there's simply no other plausible explanation at this point. And Beijing has been completely unresponsive in even denying it.

I too allowed my brain to be hijacked by my hatred for Trump. I allowed my biases to cause me to essentially outsource my decision-making to my enemy who then by aggressively going for a conclusion in a manner that was too early for concrete evidence, caused me to embrace the alternative explanation which itself frankly defied a lot of logic. I'm very embarrassed about this and it's something I have to confront about my own brains weaknesses.

Why is that?

It's quite a coincidence for a bat born Corona virus that is unusually adept at infecting human lung tissue to emerge in the same exact city as the world's leading batborn Corona virus research center. For this to not be related to anything in that research facility is starting to border on improbable but of course could happen.

However when you combine this with the way the Chinese authorities behaved, and then add into this fact that they still cannot find any form of intermediate animal host no matter how much effort is expended, it really starts to push the natural-born theory to a high degree of improbability.

I owe many of my friends a huge apology over this. It's not fun but I'm calling them one by one to apologize because I feel like it will remind me in the future to check my own cognitive biases before jumping to conclusions.

I lament the fact that the majority of the public that did the same thing as me will never question their own judgment or stop to wonder why they were manipulated so aggressively by a media that was more concerned with confirming the biases of their audience and themselves than seeking out real truth.

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#12

Post by yhoneycomb » Sat, May 15, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #6

JPKab wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-peop... The most likely origin of this virus at this point, was an accidental lab leak due to a quirk in regulations where BSL 2 was the category approved for normal coronaviruses, and BSL 3 was reserved for the natural strains that already infected humans like SARS 1 and MERS. Unfortunately nobody in the lab bothered to question whether they should be using BSL…

And I'm sure I'll be downvoted to oblivion for even bring it up. But the evidence, as you've explained, has increasingly been mounting. I was all in on calling people Sinophobic for even suggesting this in the first few months. But there's simply no other plausible explanation at this point. And Beijing has been completely unresponsive in even denying it.

When did you call people sinophobic? Seems like you talk more about how we are at war with China than anything.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#13

Post by cipher_system » Sat, May 15, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #11

aphextron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm sure I'll be downvoted to oblivion for even bring it up. But the evidence, as you've explained, has increasingly been mounting. I was all in on calling people Sinophobic for even suggesting this in the first few months. But there's simply no other plausible explanation at this point. And Beijing has been completely unresponsive in even denying it.

I too allowed my brain to be hijacked by my hatred for Trump. I allowed my biases to cause me to essentially outsource my decision-making to my enemy who then by aggressively going for a conclusion in a manner that was too early for concrete evidence, caused me to embrace the alternative explanation which itself frankly defied a lot of logic. I'm very embarrassed about this and it's something I have to confront about…

Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to locate a bat born Corona virus research center in a region with a lot of bat born Corona viruses?

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#14

Post by gmuslera » Sat, May 15, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #3

I've always wondered this since COVID hit. Why has this not happened more frequently? If it were a natural event, why are we not constantly being bombarded with these things? And what happens when we get 3, 4, 5 different ones at once? I'm no conspiracy theorist. But Occam's Razor leans heavily to the side of COVID being a man made catastrophe when you think about that.

COVID had some some circunstances that helped becoming so widespread.

It takes several days for someone to caught it to develop symptoms, if ever.

It happened at a moment in time and place with very high connectivity with the rest of the world

You have far less odds of having severe symptoms (specially in the main/original variants), if any, if you are young enough. That is a good age for international travel (and spreading) and to not not care about consequences for others.

And, last but not least, the influence of social networks and agents on them, that denied that the disease was a risk, that people should not take measures, and now that you should not vaccinate. And conspiracy theories, of course.

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#15

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 15, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

yhoneycomb wrote: post #12

aphextron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm sure I'll be downvoted to oblivion for even bring it up. But the evidence, as you've explained, has increasingly been mounting. I was all in on calling people Sinophobic for even suggesting this in the first few months. But there's simply no other plausible explanation at this point. And Beijing has been completely unresponsive in even denying it.

When did you call people sinophobic? Seems like you talk more about how we are at war with China than anything. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[deleted]

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#16

Post by whipaway » Sat, May 15, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

okareaman wrote: post #7

He basically lets the Trump administration off the hook but blames public health bureaucracy of California - typical of what I've come to expect from Niall Ferguson, a partisan hack at this point.

> He basically lets the Trump administration off the hook

That's pretty loaded.

Should we let the entire liberal political establishment off the hook for screaming at the top of their lungs that Trump is evil for not going gung-ho with a WWII mobilization for ventilators? Only to later find that ventilators in many cases were not only ineffective, but leading to death.

Re: Niall Ferguson: The Next Global Disaster Is Already on Its Way

#17

Post by JPKab » Sat, May 15, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

cipher_system wrote: post #13

JPKab wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too allowed my brain to be hijacked by my hatred for Trump. I allowed my biases to cause me to essentially outsource my decision-making to my enemy who then by aggressively going for a conclusion in a manner that was too early for concrete evidence, caused me to embrace the alternative explanation which itself frankly defied a lot of logic. I'm very embarrassed about this and it's something I have to confront about…

Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to locate a bat born Corona virus research center in a region with a lot of bat born Corona viruses?

That's not the region where they come from. They are primarily collected from their locations of origin which is in Yunnan. This is not to say that there are not horseshoe bats in Wuhan although they don't like urban areas and live in the outskirts. It's simply to state that the concentration of viruses that have escaped into animal populations and then humans are all concentrated in Yunnan.

I assure you this is very uncomfortable information for me and I was horrified while reading it because I didn't want to believe it. It's especially alarming to me because I'm concerned about the geopolitical implications of people in nations like India gradually realizing this.

I am not foolish enough to make conclusions yet because I do believe it's too early but as of now the likelihood of origin has shifted strongly in favor of an accidental lab escape. The animal transmission model via nature simply requires numerous highly improbable events for it to be the culprit. This doesn't rule it out it's simply makes it a lower probability of occurrence.