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Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

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Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#11

Post by qq66 »

dmbass wrote: post #7

So are we supposed to believe that incumbent tech companies have no investments in new tech? Canon is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Lytro? Samsung is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Nanosys? Cisco (or whoever) is not working (or already passed) on this type of stuff? Anybody have examples of modern (within 10 years) stealthy startups/incubators that invented new hardware th…

Lots of networking and database companies have invented new hardware+software combinations, upon which they are promptly acquired by Cisco and Oracle, respectively.

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#12

Post by Periodic »

aphyr wrote: post #8

"They don't use wireless energy." Please tell me more about your magical energy-free signal propagation! In all seriousness, Shannon's entropy limit only applies to a single variable, modulated at a certain frequency. The only reason we apply this limit to radio is because we treat each radio frequency in a given zone as a single variable. In fact, you're perfectly free to use directed antennas or interferometry to e…

That explains the "bubble" comment. Things could be addressed somewhat by location. However, a moving target would be tough to track.

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#13

Post by sp332 »

aphyr wrote: post #8

"They don't use wireless energy." Please tell me more about your magical energy-free signal propagation! In all seriousness, Shannon's entropy limit only applies to a single variable, modulated at a certain frequency. The only reason we apply this limit to radio is because we treat each radio frequency in a given zone as a single variable. In fact, you're perfectly free to use directed antennas or interferometry to e…

In context, I think he meant that they don't use wireless energy in the same way as other radios.

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#14

Post by jfoutz »

dmbass wrote: post #7

So are we supposed to believe that incumbent tech companies have no investments in new tech? Canon is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Lytro? Samsung is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Nanosys? Cisco (or whoever) is not working (or already passed) on this type of stuff? Anybody have examples of modern (within 10 years) stealthy startups/incubators that invented new hardware th…

Roku? revolutionize is a strong word, but they've had a lot of impact.

I'd throw makerbot out there as revolutionary, but that's still a very young market. - not stealthy though.

Tesla motors?

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#15

Post by Nrsolis »

Periodic wrote: post #12
aphyr wrote: post #8

"They don't use wireless energy." Please tell me more about your magical energy-free signal propagation! In all seriousness, Shannon's entropy limit only applies to a single variable, modulated at a certain frequency. The only reason we apply this limit to radio is because we treat each radio frequency in a given zone as a single variable. In fact, you're perfectly free to use directed antennas or interferometry to e…

That explains the "bubble" comment. Things could be addressed somewhat by location. However, a moving target would be tough to track.

Aren't we using some interferometry techniques to communicate with the Voyager spacecraft?

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#16

Post by GHFigs »

dmbass wrote: post #7

So are we supposed to believe that incumbent tech companies have no investments in new tech? Canon is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Lytro? Samsung is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Nanosys? Cisco (or whoever) is not working (or already passed) on this type of stuff? Anybody have examples of modern (within 10 years) stealthy startups/incubators that invented new hardware th…

When I look at Lytro I think of E-Ink and FingerWorks, both companies that (like Lytro) grew out of academia and both of whose technology has been significant (arguably revolutionary) in the last decade.

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#17

Post by dmbass »

GHFigs wrote: post #16
dmbass wrote: post #7

So are we supposed to believe that incumbent tech companies have no investments in new tech? Canon is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Lytro? Samsung is not working (or already passed) on the same stuff as Nanosys? Cisco (or whoever) is not working (or already passed) on this type of stuff? Anybody have examples of modern (within 10 years) stealthy startups/incubators that invented new hardware th…

When I look at Lytro I think of E-Ink and FingerWorks, both companies that (like Lytro) grew out of academia and both of whose technology has been significant (arguably revolutionary) in the last decade.

Those are pretty good examples but it basically means that there is no reason to get excited about this now since it is many years away from making any kind of impact.

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#18

Post by Mvandenbergh »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #6

Sounds like interferometric based MIMO from the description. Not breaking Shannon's law in that case.

It is, I've been doing a bit of poking around in the patent applications filed by this guy recently and that seems to be the gist of it. Unlike normal MIMO though, only the base station has multiple antennas, the mobile stations have one antenna each.

This leads to the downstream bandwidth being much higher than the upstream, but given that video is going to drive mobile bandwidth growth that is ok.

Basically what's happening is that a training signal from each of the base station antennas is constantly being monitored by the mobile station, channel information gets calculated and sent back to the base station.

The base station uses the channel vectors for each of the mobile stations (updated frequently because this is spatial multiplexing and mobile stations... move) to compute the signals for the entire antenna array.

The odd seeming stuff about energy not being transferred has to do with using a sort of inverse spatial coding where you can aim signal nulls at mobile stations that don't want to receive particular signals.

Relevant patents: http://patents.com/us-20110044193.html http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...

Re: Amazing new wireless tech: Breaking Shannon's Law

#20

Post by mooftard »

dmbass wrote: post #17
GHFigs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I look at Lytro I think of E-Ink and FingerWorks, both companies that (like Lytro) grew out of academia and both of whose technology has been significant (arguably revolutionary) in the last decade.

Those are pretty good examples but it basically means that there is no reason to get excited about this now since it is many years away from making any kind of impact.

Unless you are a hacker and want to work on this. hn, hn.
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