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San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

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Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#11

Post by dlgeek »

vmception wrote: post #9

Are non-inclusive safe spaces legal? It seems that in residences that it would be sanctionable to deny housing based on assigned sex or gender identity, and in education it would be sanctionable to have admissions based on that as well. I was curious about this with Hackbright too, but I wasn't interested in this cause enough to see what legal counsel thought of it (it was the closest coding academy to me at one poin…

I think the residence non-discrimination requirements don't apply if it's a shared space, only if it's a multi-family dwelling over a certain number of units.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#12

Post by MyHypatia »

vmception wrote: post #9

Are non-inclusive safe spaces legal? It seems that in residences that it would be sanctionable to deny housing based on assigned sex or gender identity, and in education it would be sanctionable to have admissions based on that as well. I was curious about this with Hackbright too, but I wasn't interested in this cause enough to see what legal counsel thought of it (it was the closest coding academy to me at one poin…

Yes, non-inclusive spaces are legal. There are still golf clubs in the US that don't allow women. Just last week the top golf club in the US voted to allow women for the first time in its 108 year history. If these male-only spaces are legal I don't see how these female-only spaces would be illegal. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31...

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#13

Post by Barrin92 »

vmception wrote: post #9

Are non-inclusive safe spaces legal? It seems that in residences that it would be sanctionable to deny housing based on assigned sex or gender identity, and in education it would be sanctionable to have admissions based on that as well. I was curious about this with Hackbright too, but I wasn't interested in this cause enough to see what legal counsel thought of it (it was the closest coding academy to me at one poin…

>I don't really think the various Civil Rights Acts support the bay area's rebranding of separate but equal.

that is an incredible bad faith characterization. In informal 'frat house' style settings that don't have many rules women often face incredible amounts of harassment because mostly men don't respect boundaries. It's why there is such a stereotypical bro-culture in SV, it's enabled by the laissez-faire attitude.

In settings with rules and where people expect professionalism it doesn't tend to be as much of an issue, but in some house where people even mix drinking and work it tends to go bad really quick.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#14

Post by vmception »

MyHypatia wrote: post #12
vmception wrote: post #9

Are non-inclusive safe spaces legal? It seems that in residences that it would be sanctionable to deny housing based on assigned sex or gender identity, and in education it would be sanctionable to have admissions based on that as well. I was curious about this with Hackbright too, but I wasn't interested in this cause enough to see what legal counsel thought of it (it was the closest coding academy to me at one poin…

Yes, non-inclusive spaces are legal. There are still golf clubs in the US that don't allow women. Just last week the top golf club in the US voted to allow women for the first time in its 108 year history. If these male-only spaces are legal I don't see how these female-only spaces would be illegal. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31...

Just because something hasn't been challenged doesn't mean it is legal and the ongoing existence of a counterpoint is not a strong argument regarding legal review.

And the more obvious difference to me is that your example is not providing housing and is not providing education.

There are really two questions here, the first being is it legal, and the second being is this what we want whether it is currently legal or currently illegal? If the answer to the second question is "yes" then carry on. To me it currently seems incompatible, and I am still trying to understand what the current consensus is. I don't have strong opinions on it, or much of anything, which is why I gravitate towards the legal field because - like lawyers - I can compartmentalize anything. So I am aiming to also understand the consensus on what people desire and if "safe spaces" are the most productive approach to getting there.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#15

Post by vmception »

Barrin92 wrote: post #13
vmception wrote: post #9

Are non-inclusive safe spaces legal? It seems that in residences that it would be sanctionable to deny housing based on assigned sex or gender identity, and in education it would be sanctionable to have admissions based on that as well. I was curious about this with Hackbright too, but I wasn't interested in this cause enough to see what legal counsel thought of it (it was the closest coding academy to me at one poin…

>I don't really think the various Civil Rights Acts support the bay area's rebranding of separate but equal. that is an incredible bad faith characterization. In informal 'frat house' style settings that don't have many rules women often face incredible amounts of harassment because mostly men don't respect boundaries. It's why there is such a stereotypical bro-culture in SV, it's enabled by the laissez-faire attitud…

It's supposed to be provocative to potentially stoke introspection.

I understand the rationale behind "safe spaces", that wasn't my question.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#16

Post by mensetmanusman »

vmception wrote: post #14
MyHypatia wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, non-inclusive spaces are legal. There are still golf clubs in the US that don't allow women. Just last week the top golf club in the US voted to allow women for the first time in its 108 year history. If these male-only spaces are legal I don't see how these female-only spaces would be illegal. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31...

Just because something hasn't been challenged doesn't mean it is legal and the ongoing existence of a counterpoint is not a strong argument regarding legal review. And the more obvious difference to me is that your example is not providing housing and is not providing education. There are really two questions here, the first being is it legal, and the second being is this what we want whether it is currently legal or…

People have the freedom to hang out with who they want?

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#17

Post by vmception »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #16
vmception wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something hasn't been challenged doesn't mean it is legal and the ongoing existence of a counterpoint is not a strong argument regarding legal review. And the more obvious difference to me is that your example is not providing housing and is not providing education. There are really two questions here, the first being is it legal, and the second being is this what we want whether it is currently legal or…

People have the freedom to hang out with who they want?

With some limitations on housing, education, and employment.

The question is whether those limitations apply here.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#18

Post by Barrin92 »

vmception wrote: post #15
Barrin92 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't really think the various Civil Rights Acts support the bay area's rebranding of separate but equal. that is an incredible bad faith characterization. In informal 'frat house' style settings that don't have many rules women often face incredible amounts of harassment because mostly men don't respect boundaries. It's why there is such a stereotypical bro-culture in SV, it's enabled by the laissez-faire attitud…

It's supposed to be provocative to potentially stoke introspection. I understand the rationale behind "safe spaces", that wasn't my question.

well it's not provocative, it's just stupid. The whole "oh safe spaces? See you're the real racist!" thing you can find in the youtube comment section of Ben Shapiro videos. You're not making some genius point here, you're just not familiar with the kind of experiences women face in these environments or lack the social intelligence to imagine it, like 95% of the HN audience.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#19

Post by vmception »

Barrin92 wrote: post #18
vmception wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's supposed to be provocative to potentially stoke introspection. I understand the rationale behind "safe spaces", that wasn't my question.

well it's not provocative, it's just stupid. The whole "oh safe spaces? See you're the real racist!" thing you can find in the youtube comment section of Ben Shapiro videos. You're not making some genius point here, you're just not familiar with the kind of experiences women face in these environments or lack the social intelligence to imagine it, like 95% of the HN audience.

your words and I’m not familiar with those influencers

Is the way they are addressing it compatible with existing laws? Do you see how easy that is for me to have zero emotion on this, your turn. Think of it as a standardized test question, you have to answer those based on accuracy.

Re: San Francisco All-Female Hacker House Aims to Support Women Builders

#20

Post by vmception »

dlgeek wrote: post #11
vmception wrote: post #9

Are non-inclusive safe spaces legal? It seems that in residences that it would be sanctionable to deny housing based on assigned sex or gender identity, and in education it would be sanctionable to have admissions based on that as well. I was curious about this with Hackbright too, but I wasn't interested in this cause enough to see what legal counsel thought of it (it was the closest coding academy to me at one poin…

I think the residence non-discrimination requirements don't apply if it's a shared space, only if it's a multi-family dwelling over a certain number of units.

Ah possibly, thats how employment works too, some anti-discrimination statutes coming into play after a certain number of employees.
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