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What nobody says about startup moms

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Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#11

> I remember chatting with a woman at a work event one night and asking if she needed to go home soon because of her kids. She replied, “No, I see my kids on weekends.” I couldn’t help but cringe thinking about what it would be like to only see my son on weekends. It seemed horrible! If you work 9-5 (really 8-5 most places) this is basically true anyway. Most of the time you get with them on weekdays may have some qu…

>Any way you slice it, weekday time-with-kids for someone with a normal job is pretty crap.

It's not crap for the kids, and that's all that's important.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#12
People probably assume that women are more likely to spend more time with their kids by observing the way that parents interact with their children in primate species (including in humans).

Maybe we should be doing more stuff that supports women being able to have their kids at work with them (if they chose to work) instead of somehow implying that there is worth in forfeiting substantial portions of the healthy parts of your life to improving the efficiency of a cat picture delivery service.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#13
> Everyone knows kids consume your time. But what people without kids may not realize is the extent to which people with kids want their time to be consumed by them.

This is one of the hardest parts of parenthood to communicate to non-parents: Yes, children demand a lot of time and attention. However, as a parent you actually enjoy spending that time with your children.

To the author's point: Different people will want different balances between time spent working and time spent with kids, and that's fine as long as it remains a balance. There are different ways to divide up time and attention that don't require sacrificing everything for the children. It took me a while to learn that having both parents available on demand 100% of the time isn't necessarily great for the child's development as they grow up. Dropping your kid off at daycare is hard the first few times, but watching my child have fun and develop relationship skills with other kids and people was eye-opening. There are many ways to split the load between parents that are fine in the end.

It also helps to remember that "they grow up so fast" is cliche, but it's true. The most demanding early years of child raising fly by quickly. I don't mean to downplay the effort involved, but the situation continues to change as they grow up and become more independent, eventually spending more time at school, on independent activities, with their friends, and so on.

It's very difficult for anyone trying to balance demanding startup needs with demanding infant needs, but I also know many people in the startup world who simply had young kids and did startups at different stages in their career rather than overlapping the two. There's nothing wrong with working for a relaxed, big company while your kids are young and need attention, then switching gears to startup mode after they're more independent.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#14
post #11

> I remember chatting with a woman at a work event one night and asking if she needed to go home soon because of her kids. She replied, “No, I see my kids on weekends.” I couldn’t help but cringe thinking about what it would be like to only see my son on weekends. It seemed horrible! If you work 9-5 (really 8-5 most places) this is basically true anyway. Most of the time you get with them on weekdays may have some qu…

>Any way you slice it, weekday time-with-kids for someone with a normal job is pretty crap. It's not crap for the kids, and that's all that's important.

Right, being there at all has some value, but both the quantity and quality of actual time with them, rather than just near them but entirely distracted by other life-crap, isn't high.

I'm just saying that "I mostly see them on weekends" isn't that drastic, IMO (and I suspect it was a bit of an exaggeration anyway). Weekends represent like 80-90% of the time that I'm not just badgering my kids to get stuff done so their room's clean / we aren't late / they don't look like we don't provide them real clothes / they don't entirely wreck the house / they don't get hurt. The hours during the weekday are high-friction and low-freedom because they fall around transitions.

[EDIT] of course, again, having a large amount of money can enable one to buy one's way to much higher-quality weekday time with kids, that may be a factor. If you don't clean or tidy (much), if you don't have to cook to provide healthy food, if the kids have an actual nanny(!)—if any of that's true, then I'm sure the character of that time at least can be very different, if you don't instead use that extra liberty for your own non-kid purposes.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#15
post #3

What is unacceptable to me is why this question is never asked of Fathers. I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends, but is it not just as harmful? Ultimately though, I fail to understand why anyone without the proper time to devote to a child would chose to have one.

You have a limited window to have children who likely will outlive you / be around your entire life. Work / time constraints while intense are temporary.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#16
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unscientifically, absent mother is seen as worse than absent father. I agree, and will may involuntarily postpone having kids because of that reason alone.

Absence of either is more or less even-equal of a problem: Jordan Peterson and Warren Farrell on The Boy Crisis and Gender Politics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AA1lR3CC4s

Don't know you're grayed out. Humans are genetically extremely similar, appearances not-withstanding. Nurture is what creates valuable and functional humans. Societal factors that reduce parents ability to nurture their children are bad regardless of the parents gender.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#17

> I remember chatting with a woman at a work event one night and asking if she needed to go home soon because of her kids. She replied, “No, I see my kids on weekends.” I couldn’t help but cringe thinking about what it would be like to only see my son on weekends. It seemed horrible! If you work 9-5 (really 8-5 most places) this is basically true anyway. Most of the time you get with them on weekdays may have some qu…

> Ordinary working people don't spend a ton of quality time with their kids during the week.

Quality time was a invention of the in-retrospect rather entitled parents of the 1970s who justified their neglect with the idea of "well I don't spend much time with my son but when I do it's quality time!".

The truth is kids, particularly young kids just want time. They want to see you around and have you take a active role in their lives. You can be around and clean the house and cook dinner at the same time, have the child help. Kids would much rather have a parent who sits on the couch to watch TV with them for a half hour every night then one that takes them to Disneyland one Saturday a month.

EDIT - Jerry Seinfeld on the topic: “I’m a believer in the ordinary and the mundane. These guys that talk about ‘quality time’ — I always find that a little sad when they say, ‘We have quality time.’ I don’t want quality time. I want the garbage time. That’s what I like. You just see them in their room reading a comic book and you get to kind of watch that for a minute, or [having] a bowl of Cheerios at 11 o’clock at night when they’re not even supposed to be up. The garbage, that’s what I love.”

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#18
post #3

What is unacceptable to me is why this question is never asked of Fathers. I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends, but is it not just as harmful? Ultimately though, I fail to understand why anyone without the proper time to devote to a child would chose to have one.

I think you may have misinterpreted the article? It does not discuss how much a mother should see her kids. Only that the amount she wants to see her kids may differ.

AFAICT when she says "It seemed horrible", she means "I would not like to be in your shoes", and NOT "you are not devoting the proper time and that is harmful".

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#19
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unscientifically, absent mother is seen as worse than absent father. I agree, and will may involuntarily postpone having kids because of that reason alone.

Absence of either is more or less even-equal of a problem: Jordan Peterson and Warren Farrell on The Boy Crisis and Gender Politics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AA1lR3CC4s

[flagged]

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#20
post #3

What is unacceptable to me is why this question is never asked of Fathers. I don’t think anyone would blink at hearing that a dad only sees his kids on weekends, but is it not just as harmful? Ultimately though, I fail to understand why anyone without the proper time to devote to a child would chose to have one.

I experienced a super busy dad for some long stretches and it never felt harmful personally. Could have been mom alternatively. Probably could not have been both at the same time without feeling some consequence.
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