Labor shortage or terrible jobs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#11

Post by MattGaiser » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #5

I think the "life is short," phenomenon that recently occurred to everybody due to COVID is also playing a part. People are thinking, something along the lines of, "I could have died and my gift of life has mostly consisted of working for this shithole company for the last 5 years." Employers might want to consider hiring more people in smaller shifts. Maybe an extra person and put everyone on 3-4 day shifts rather t…

> Employers might want to consider hiring more people in smaller shifts. Maybe an extra person and put everyone on 3-4 day shifts rather than 5-6.

I thought that doing this to avoid providing healthcare was the problem. Many jobs that can't be filled are for part time hours at terrible pay with no benefits.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#12

Post by erhk » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

andreshb wrote: post #6

If a business can’t pay a living wage, automate the role.

And tax the labour that automation provides

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#13

Post by Jiejeing » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Neither. If employers really wanted more workers, they'd up wages. If employees really wanted to work they'd settle for less. If neither is happening then everyone is happy and anyone complaining is a liar in the economic sense.

But who even wants to work for a minimum wage job for the pleasure of it?

The corporation needs labor, but the employee need money, not labor (but it happens that most common way for normal people to earn money to live is through labor).

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#14

Post by jnwatson » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #4

LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Neither. If employers really wanted more workers, they'd up wages. If employees really wanted to work they'd settle for less. If neither is happening then everyone is happy and anyone complaining is a liar in the economic sense.

Apparently close to 30% of household income right now is from government payments. I think on average people are getting the equiv of $15/hr from gov checks. So for people to want to work it’s going to have to exceed that by some non trivial amount.

Ultimately, this is a problem with all government benefits with an strict binary income limit. The result is that, in some circumstances, earning 1 more dollar results in losing thousands of dollars. The marginal income tax system was set up this way for a reason.

If these unemployment benefits were paid out UBI-style, regardless of current employment, there wouldn't be a disincentive to find work.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#15

Post by medium_burrito » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

This is super exciting and scary- we've basically gone basic income, but with zero planning. We'll see how it turns out.

We're having some price inflation due to supply chain issues. Cost of housing is more interesting... should we go public housing like Signapore, but contract it out to a country that isn't full of morons that cant plan/lawsuit/consult/build infra for a reasonable price?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#16

Post by gred » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

Given the surge in online shopping and the blue-collar labor shortage (not really a shortage, just wages triplicating within 1 or 2 years), logistics automation is in overdrive right now. Many of these jobs won't be available to come back to (at any price) once the helicopter money runs out.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#17

Post by medium_burrito » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #10

recursivedoubts wrote: post #7

Maybe one of these days the pro-labor left and the pro-labor right are gonna figure it out, stop taking the bait, and we'll finally get a real revolution.

Everyone knows how to make a revolution. The hard work is the day after the revolution. The same problems will exist. They don’t magically go away.

Also what are they gonna revolt about? Immigration and automation I can definitely see, but there's nobody but the Yang stumping about this.

And then you have the question of what happens when the A and C arks leave for Mars?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#18

Post by throwaway292893 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

andreshb wrote: post #6

If a business can’t pay a living wage, automate the role.

Looking at you California farms.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#19

Post by throwaway292893 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Neither. If employers really wanted more workers, they'd up wages. If employees really wanted to work they'd settle for less. If neither is happening then everyone is happy and anyone complaining is a liar in the economic sense.

The people with jobs paying taxes aren't very happy to support freeloaders simply taking unemployment because they don't want to work.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#20

Post by mywittyname » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt.

It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person to even get a car, because they are going to be outbid by a not-poor person who is willing to pay a lot more for the same crappy car because of shortages. Repair shops are having issues getting replacement parts, so even maintaining a vehicle is getting difficult.

We built our economy on exploitation, and now the exploited have been drained dry. So now we have to either pay up or do without.