What's going on here, with this human? • Hacker News Board

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#11

Post by lordnacho » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 6:13 AM UTC

I liked the essay and certainly learned a few things. But how are you going to put the stuff about references to use? It's going to be limited how many people you know who also know a candidate you're interested in. References from the candidate will have a heavy positive bias because who on earth wants to spoil someone's chances of getting a job?

I actually gave a very positive reference this week, an honest one for a friend I've worked with who really is a top guy, while thinking that the recruiter must hear this all the time.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#12

Post by op03 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 6:40 AM UTC

galaxyLogic wrote: post #9

I'm not sure I got much of value out of this on a quick reading. Could someone summarize the lessons of this article? I think it's too psyche-oriented. Trying to psycho-analyze the candidates? Trying to find a person from whom you can get the maximum benefit? I've always had the feeling that people who are very interested in psychology are really trying to gain an edge over the others who they now "understand better"…

It needs to be psych oriented.

If you are in high pressure situations you need people who can handle pressure, stay focused etc i.e. not neurotics. Discovering that they cant, when shit hits the fan will have a big cost. On the other hand, if you are dealing with problems requiring curiosity, there is more tolerance for the neurotics and less tolerance for obedience trait holders who need to be told what to do.

Psychology gives team managers that mental framework of what to look for, a vocabulary to think about the types of chimps in the population, where they fit, what they can handle, when they need a break, the spectrum of rewards and punishments that work depending on the personality type, needs, values etc.

Without that knowledge, most good managers will spend a lot of time coming up with their own frameworks (usually to fit a very specific small problem domain) that will invariably resemble what already exists in psych text books.

Yes some managers will take advantage of the knowledge but that is a separate issue to whether the knowledge is required to build good teams. It is.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#13

Post by FeepingCreature » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 7:15 AM UTC

Okay, but how do you know all this works?

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#14

Post by StavrosK » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

FeepingCreature wrote: post #13

Okay, but how do you know all this works?

You have to rely on your decades-long confirmation bias.

I doubt the author (or anyone) goes back to their interview notes a year after hiring the candidate to see how much they got right.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#15

Post by StavrosK » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

danuker wrote: post #10

> I’m looking for the felt sense of a “hungry mind” based on the way their questions flow. That’s very hard to fake. As a candidate, just imagine you own the company. The questions will flow naturally once you think about what those clowns are doing with your money.

What happens if the hungry mind is too hungry for your menial CRUD job, and you were actually better off with the unhungry mind that is content to do its job and go home at the end of the day?

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#16

Post by marcus_holmes » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:00 AM UTC

galaxyLogic wrote: post #9

I'm not sure I got much of value out of this on a quick reading. Could someone summarize the lessons of this article? I think it's too psyche-oriented. Trying to psycho-analyze the candidates? Trying to find a person from whom you can get the maximum benefit? I've always had the feeling that people who are very interested in psychology are really trying to gain an edge over the others who they now "understand better"…

In my experience most psychology students are confused about themselves and trying to work out why they are the way they are and how they can deal with that. Less Machiavellian, more simple survival.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#17

Post by marcus_holmes » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:07 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

I liked the essay and certainly learned a few things. But how are you going to put the stuff about references to use? It's going to be limited how many people you know who also know a candidate you're interested in. References from the candidate will have a heavy positive bias because who on earth wants to spoil someone's chances of getting a job? I actually gave a very positive reference this week, an honest one for…

A friend of mine told me to get more endorsements on LinkedIn. I never bothered because I dismiss them out of hand when considering candidates - they're usually the result of trades with ex-colleagues, and not a heartfelt "wow this person was amazing to work with!". Like your opinion of references - they're rigged to be positive always, so kinda worthless.

But I could be wrong. Other people are weird ;)

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#18

Post by callesgg » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:09 AM UTC

Yet another person trying to teach what can’t be taught through verbal lessons.

Or maybe it can and I have just never been able to find anyone that is able to.

Basically you understand other people with reference to your understanding of yourself, to become better at understanding other people you need to change the way you understand yourself.

Someone else will not be able to change your understanding of yourself. You must do that yourself.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#19

Post by scotty79 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:24 AM UTC

callesgg wrote: post #18

Yet another person trying to teach what can’t be taught through verbal lessons. Or maybe it can and I have just never been able to find anyone that is able to. Basically you understand other people with reference to your understanding of yourself, to become better at understanding other people you need to change the way you understand yourself. Someone else will not be able to change your understanding of yourself. Y…

> Someone else will not be able to change your understanding of yourself. You must do that yourself.

But people can make you think the thoughts and feel the feelings that you wouldn't have otherwise.

And those new things can improve your understanding of yourself.

I recently understood that I need to avoid people with fragile ego, that get hurt when their opinion is challenged or proven wrong and people that assign to other people the responsibility not only for their speech and actions, but also for the emotions those things invoked in them.

I also need to build up my emotional resistance to being misjudged and cut off without chance of defending myself, because it turned out I'm quite sensitive to that.

Re: What's going on here, with this human?

#20

Post by scotty79 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:29 AM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #16

galaxyLogic wrote: post #9

I'm not sure I got much of value out of this on a quick reading. Could someone summarize the lessons of this article? I think it's too psyche-oriented. Trying to psycho-analyze the candidates? Trying to find a person from whom you can get the maximum benefit? I've always had the feeling that people who are very interested in psychology are really trying to gain an edge over the others who they now "understand better"…

In my experience most psychology students are confused about themselves and trying to work out why they are the way they are and how they can deal with that. Less Machiavellian, more simple survival.

My friend studying psychology told me that at the beginnig of their studies one professor told them:

Some of you came here to help yourselves. It won't work.