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FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

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Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#11

Post by toomuchtodo »

benjohnson wrote: post #5

Frankly this seems paternalistic. It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: "We found something non-white people enjoy and we're going to ruin it. For their own good."

New Zealand has an age requirement for tobacco, and has also (edit: proposed) to ban sales of it entirely based on birth year (2004 and forward) to phase out its consumption. I’d say this doesn’t go far enough. We’ve known for over half a century the damage tobacco consumption does to a person’s body.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-ai...

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#12

Post by aaronbrethorst »

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder if there’s ever been a study comparing the effects of banning compared to ultra high taxation of products. I understand that there are groups that are negatively affected but is banning even effective in improving health outcomes in this case? In my imaginary world the tax would be extremely high and diverted to things in the same area that have the opposite effect: e.g make cheeseburgers more expensive and…

Googling for "effects of banning compared to ultra high taxation of products" produces useful results that answer your question.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151217165607.h...

tl;dr: they have different, but complementary effects.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#14

Post by [deleted] »

ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

[deleted]

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#15

Post by whatshisface »

ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

Well, that's the same Libertarian argument whether black people are involved or not. Every vice is something that people like. That's what the concept of a vice means, as opposed to diseases, crimes, or tragedies. The "is it paternalistic to change other people's willful behavior" question is one that has dogged every prohibition debate since time immemorial.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#16

Post by Alupis »

endisneigh wrote: post #3

I wonder if there’s ever been a study comparing the effects of banning compared to ultra high taxation of products. I understand that there are groups that are negatively affected but is banning even effective in improving health outcomes in this case? In my imaginary world the tax would be extremely high and diverted to things in the same area that have the opposite effect: e.g make cheeseburgers more expensive and…

People will rationalize the choice (since it's still available) and end up spending more on the same item, which doesn't reduce usage - it just means the people using this item now have less money than before.

So, if the goal is to remove the item entirely, it has to be banned from production/import rather than highly taxed.

I don't really think bans are great either - we're all adults and can make our own choices. Provide better education about the effects/impacts of the choice, then let the informed adults make their own decision.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#18

Post by walrus01 »

vvanpo wrote: post #7

On the one hand, I understand that complete prohibition for drugs and alcohol just don't work. But I have a difficult time squaring that against my feelings towards tobacco, where I feel it would be so much easier for me to quit if I wasn't tempted by its availability at every corner store.

What are your thoughts on a retail cigarette sale system such as in Canada, where they may be available in every convenience store, but there can be absolutely no signage or advertising, and they're kept in an opaque cabinet with no labels on it?

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/keeping-bc-healthy...

https://www.ontario.ca/page/tobacco-vendor-fact-sheet

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#20

Post by teruakohatu »

According to Wikipedia taxes make up 42.5% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes in the US. In New Zealand it is as best I can work it out, around 72% (including both excise tax and sale tax). One cigarette costs US$0.96 in New Zealand. Menthol is still allowed.

This, along with bans on smoking inside public buildings including restaurants and bars, ban on advertising (they can't even be displayed in stores), and marketing has lead to significant falls in smoking.

The downside is there is a growing blackmarket and robberies of convenient stores because they are worth so much and easily converted to cash.

(I don't smoke and prices may have changed since I last read about it)

Edit: Typo fixed.

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