Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication • Hacker News Board

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#11

Post by throwaway1090 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #4

I have an idea for a bunch of low powered nodes that make an sms analog, a bbs and an ebook library available during natural disasters. It'd be nifty to allow communities to communicate during extended disasters, where 4g towers can often lose their backup power. I would love it if one of these mesh wifi projects really made it somewhere. That would be very convenient for this project.

Remember the guy who rescued a lost hiker by deducing his location Sherlock-Holmes-style using a single photo? [1][2]. The story was trending on HN few days ago.

He's got a pinned tweet [3] that says "One of the key technologies which has helped in crowdsourced response to extreme weather disasters (fires floods hurricanes) these last years has been ability to monitor local emergency radio channels remotely. Let's get these everywhere. #raspberrypi #rtlsdr #scanner"

He (Benjamin Kuo) is a HAM Radio operator active during disasters.

It's different from what you wanted, but just putting it here.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/us/missing-hiker-found.ht...

[2] https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382371967618097157

[3] https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1085609599661617152

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#12

Post by na85 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #10

If the frequencies used are above the plasma frequency of the ionosphere (typically >30 MHz) like here then the only solution to "mesh" or cell networks is line of sight and that only comes from height above terrain. And height above terrain, except in rare and unique cases, is always expensive. The only reason cell networks work is that the telcos pay big money for getting access, power, and backhaul to places up hi…

They're good solutions for places like Athens where the population is dense and urbanized and people are more concerned with getting any connectivity at all rather than getting low ping times in CSGO.

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#13

Post by woah » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #10

If the frequencies used are above the plasma frequency of the ionosphere (typically >30 MHz) like here then the only solution to "mesh" or cell networks is line of sight and that only comes from height above terrain. And height above terrain, except in rare and unique cases, is always expensive. The only reason cell networks work is that the telcos pay big money for getting access, power, and backhaul to places up hi…

Actually, wireless ISPs are very common around the world. Yes, line of sight to another node or a tower is always necessary.

There's such an odd divide between tech geeks who like to sit around and think about "p2p wireless decentralized mesh networks", and don't know of any network that doesn't use those buzzwords, and wireless ISP operators who actually build them in the real world despite never having heard the word "mesh".

Generally the networks started by the mesh geeks perform much worse, and have few, if any subscribers, despite the fact that topology and equipment are identical to a wireless ISP.

Source: was a mesh geek, started a company making open source software for p2p mesh networks, now it serves wireless ISPs, who tend to have 100x the hustle and professionalism of the mesh geeks.

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#14

Post by throwaway1090 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #13

superkuh wrote: post #10

If the frequencies used are above the plasma frequency of the ionosphere (typically >30 MHz) like here then the only solution to "mesh" or cell networks is line of sight and that only comes from height above terrain. And height above terrain, except in rare and unique cases, is always expensive. The only reason cell networks work is that the telcos pay big money for getting access, power, and backhaul to places up hi…

Actually, wireless ISPs are very common around the world. Yes, line of sight to another node or a tower is always necessary. There's such an odd divide between tech geeks who like to sit around and think about "p2p wireless decentralized mesh networks", and don't know of any network that doesn't use those buzzwords, and wireless ISP operators who actually build them in the real world despite never having heard the wo…

That's very interesting. Do they deliver internet through WiMAX ?

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#15

Post by superkuh » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #13

superkuh wrote: post #10

If the frequencies used are above the plasma frequency of the ionosphere (typically >30 MHz) like here then the only solution to "mesh" or cell networks is line of sight and that only comes from height above terrain. And height above terrain, except in rare and unique cases, is always expensive. The only reason cell networks work is that the telcos pay big money for getting access, power, and backhaul to places up hi…

Actually, wireless ISPs are very common around the world. Yes, line of sight to another node or a tower is always necessary. There's such an odd divide between tech geeks who like to sit around and think about "p2p wireless decentralized mesh networks", and don't know of any network that doesn't use those buzzwords, and wireless ISP operators who actually build them in the real world despite never having heard the wo…

A wireless ISP is not running a "mesh". But yeah, having an income stream to pay for height above terrain makes all the difference.

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#16

Post by woah » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 11:29 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #15

woah wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, wireless ISPs are very common around the world. Yes, line of sight to another node or a tower is always necessary. There's such an odd divide between tech geeks who like to sit around and think about "p2p wireless decentralized mesh networks", and don't know of any network that doesn't use those buzzwords, and wireless ISP operators who actually build them in the real world despite never having heard the wo…

A wireless ISP is not running a "mesh". But yeah, having an income stream to pay for height above terrain makes all the difference.

Some run meshes, some don't. Whether or not they use a distance-vector routing protocol is a pretty insignificant technical detail IRL.

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#17

Post by johnklos » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:31 AM UTC

Mesh is what we can look to when we don't have (reliable) Internet, for when we're in places that don't have Internet, and/or for people who don't have the resources to get on the Internet.

Rust is not something we're going to be running on low power Pi-type boards in trees, or on the kind of hardware that's available to people with very limited resources.

So why write software in a language that isn't meant for and can't be compiled on modest hardware?

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#18

Post by noodlesUK » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:40 AM UTC

johnklos wrote: post #17

Mesh is what we can look to when we don't have (reliable) Internet, for when we're in places that don't have Internet, and/or for people who don't have the resources to get on the Internet. Rust is not something we're going to be running on low power Pi-type boards in trees, or on the kind of hardware that's available to people with very limited resources. So why write software in a language that isn't meant for and…

Why wouldn’t you be able to run rust on something like a Pi, or even a much more modest mcu? (You totally can)

There’s even a whole section of the rust documentation about embedded development in rust. https://docs.rust-embedded.org/book/

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#19

Post by jkilpatr » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

radec wrote: post #8

chrispeel wrote: post #2

Althea started out with a similar pitch. I'm not sure where they are now https://althea.net/how-it-works

just an lurkers prospective, but they really seem to be growing fast. They have a lot of networks up and running and have been doing a pretty impressive job of getting people real broadband internet where there wasn't any before.

We're hiring.

https://twitter.com/AltheaNetwork/status/1357794950843305984

https://althea.net/careers

Re: Irdest: Decentralised ad-hoc wireless mesh communication

#20

Post by jbaber » Sun, Apr 25, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

johnklos wrote: post #17

Mesh is what we can look to when we don't have (reliable) Internet, for when we're in places that don't have Internet, and/or for people who don't have the resources to get on the Internet. Rust is not something we're going to be running on low power Pi-type boards in trees, or on the kind of hardware that's available to people with very limited resources. So why write software in a language that isn't meant for and…

This sounds like you think Rust is interpreted. It's not.