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Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

theverge.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#11

Post by throwawaysea »

PaulHoule wrote: post #5

I own this exact tractor https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Holland_TC30_HST... and even it has a sensor in the driver's seat that will stop it if there is less than 100 lbs in the driver's seat. (When my son weighed 80 lbs he couldn't drive it unless I put 2 10 lb weightlifting plates and put them in a backpack.) The purpose there is so that the tractor doesn't drag or crush you if you fall out of the seat,…

I actually find that these nanny features can be to be annoying. My car will beep continuously if I put something in the front passenger seat but don’t buckle the seat belt, because it thinks a passenger is riding without the seat belt. I would rather it just say something once and get out of the way, letting me use my car how I want.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#12

Post by throwawaysea »

clouddrover wrote: post #4
whatsreal wrote: post #2

I am torn by this. On the one hand a weighted chain and buckled seat belt is a simple hack. On the other hand it is clear that they were intentionally attempting to get around Tesla's safeguards. I fail to see how this is the company's fault. What could Tesla possibly do to provide more safegaurds? Measure resistance on the steering wheel to prove it is flesh on there? Driver-facing camera? Weight sensor in the seat?…

> I fail to see how this is the company's fault. Because other companies do it better. Tesla likes to publicly position its driver assistance as being so good that they refer to it as "Full Self Driving", and yet the system doesn't include a number of basic safety measures. That's part of the reason why they tell regulators that "Full Self Driving" is only a level 2 system: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-a…

> Tesla likes to publicly position its driver assistance as being so good that they refer to it as "Full Self Driving"

No, Tesla very clearly says that full self driving is a future feature and not one that is available today (https://www.tesla.com/autopilot). All it says on there is that the hardware is present to enable it. There’s also a disclaimer on there:

> Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.

They spell this out even more clearly elsewhere in their documentation. The FSD Beta release notes explicitly tell users that it can do the wrong thing at the worst time, that they need to pay extra attention, and that they shouldn’t get complacent (https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-releas...).

I do agree Tesla’s practices seem like they’re normalizing massive privacy invasions. But I really don’t think the company is at fault if irresponsible drivers use their vehicle in an incorrect manner, which they’ve been abundantly warned against.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#13

Post by clouddrover »

throwawaysea wrote: post #12
clouddrover wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I fail to see how this is the company's fault. Because other companies do it better. Tesla likes to publicly position its driver assistance as being so good that they refer to it as "Full Self Driving", and yet the system doesn't include a number of basic safety measures. That's part of the reason why they tell regulators that "Full Self Driving" is only a level 2 system: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-a…

> Tesla likes to publicly position its driver assistance as being so good that they refer to it as "Full Self Driving" No, Tesla very clearly says that full self driving is a future feature and not one that is available today ( https://www.tesla.com/autopilot ). All it says on there is that the hardware is present to enable it. There’s also a disclaimer on there: > Current Autopilot features require active driver sup…

> No, Tesla very clearly says that full self driving is a future feature and not one that is available today

But this is the sort of thing Tesla says with a megaphone:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/18510828/tesla-elon-musk-...

Where are all those robotaxis?

The fine print doesn't defend their grubby marketing and it's little wonder people believe the cars to be capable of more than they are. Just using the phrase "full self driving" in relation to a system not capable of it is bad enough.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#14

Post by clouddrover »

throwawaysea wrote: post #10

Both this article and the Ars Technica article ( https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/04/consumer-reports-shows-... ) are prime examples of misinformation and fake news. Unfortunately they won’t be flagged as such by Twitter or Facebook, even though they very regularly flag other articles for having misleading headlines or missing context. The Consumer Reports people went out of their way to bypass Tesla’s existing safe…

> Both this article and the Ars Technica article are prime examples of misinformation and fake news. Unfortunately they won’t be flagged as such

The articles won't be flagged as such because they are neither misinformation nor fake news.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#15

Post by phonon »

noxer wrote: post #3

Musk said the logs show that the car wasn't even in autopilot mode. Driver maybe was trying to escape the fire and thus was not found in the driver seat. Although this is just as much speculation as assuming the autopilot was tricked so we should just wait and see what the investigation will show.

Maybe it was on beforehand and shut-off, causing the accident as there was no-one to take back control?

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#16

Post by throwawaysea »

clouddrover wrote: post #14
throwawaysea wrote: post #10

Both this article and the Ars Technica article ( https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/04/consumer-reports-shows-... ) are prime examples of misinformation and fake news. Unfortunately they won’t be flagged as such by Twitter or Facebook, even though they very regularly flag other articles for having misleading headlines or missing context. The Consumer Reports people went out of their way to bypass Tesla’s existing safe…

> Both this article and the Ars Technica article are prime examples of misinformation and fake news. Unfortunately they won’t be flagged as such The articles won't be flagged as such because they are neither misinformation nor fake news.

The Ars headline is: “Consumer Reports shows Tesla Autopilot works with no one in the driver’s seat”

That is misinformation. Facebook and Twitter have flagged articles for much less, because they felt the headlines were misleading or incomplete.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#17

Post by clouddrover »

throwawaysea wrote: post #16
clouddrover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both this article and the Ars Technica article are prime examples of misinformation and fake news. Unfortunately they won’t be flagged as such The articles won't be flagged as such because they are neither misinformation nor fake news.

The Ars headline is: “Consumer Reports shows Tesla Autopilot works with no one in the driver’s seat” That is misinformation. Facebook and Twitter have flagged articles for much less, because they felt the headlines were misleading or incomplete.

It isn't and they haven't. Reading past the headline is a basic skill of news reading. It doesn't make it misinformation just because you don't like the headline.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#18

Post by throwawaysea »

clouddrover wrote: post #17
throwawaysea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ars headline is: “Consumer Reports shows Tesla Autopilot works with no one in the driver’s seat” That is misinformation. Facebook and Twitter have flagged articles for much less, because they felt the headlines were misleading or incomplete.

It isn't and they haven't. Reading past the headline is a basic skill of news reading. It doesn't make it misinformation just because you don't like the headline.

You know full well many people will share this article, never read past the headline, and repeat it. The sentiment held in the headline will be the one that persists and the damage to Musk and Tesla’s reputation will be done, even though the truth is that you would need to artificially rig up the car to defeat its safety measures.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#19

Post by clouddrover »

throwawaysea wrote: post #18
clouddrover wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't and they haven't. Reading past the headline is a basic skill of news reading. It doesn't make it misinformation just because you don't like the headline.

You know full well many people will share this article, never read past the headline, and repeat it. The sentiment held in the headline will be the one that persists and the damage to Musk and Tesla’s reputation will be done, even though the truth is that you would need to artificially rig up the car to defeat its safety measures.

> You know full well many people will share this article, never read past the headline, and repeat it

People not reading an article does not make the article misinformation or fake news.

> the damage to Musk and Tesla’s reputation will be done

I wouldn't worry about that. Musk does enough reputational damage all by himself.

Re: Tesla Autopilot ‘easily’ tricked into working without anyone in the driver seat

#20

Post by croes »

throwawaysea wrote: post #16
clouddrover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both this article and the Ars Technica article are prime examples of misinformation and fake news. Unfortunately they won’t be flagged as such The articles won't be flagged as such because they are neither misinformation nor fake news.

The Ars headline is: “Consumer Reports shows Tesla Autopilot works with no one in the driver’s seat” That is misinformation. Facebook and Twitter have flagged articles for much less, because they felt the headlines were misleading or incomplete.

So Teslas Autopilot does not work with no one in the driver seat?
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