Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

paulkingsnorth.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 73 posts

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#11

Post by mrphoebs »

Nursie wrote: post #5

> We need these roots. You might. I need friends and family, some community participation is nice, sure, but I don't particularly feel the need for gods, ancient traditions or worship, which these seem to be tied up with in the text. > Our culture is not in danger of dying; it is already dead, and we are in denial. This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole.

The content seemed to be talking about the fundamental common operating system for societies, not individuals. Individuals might have varying needs but as long as their needs align well with a superset of a culture's fundamental tenets the society would be relatively harmonious, or at least that's the way I see the author approaching the subject. I don't think these fundamental tenets need to have a theological basis for them, but as humans an overwhelmingly large part of our history as a people tribes, kingdoms and societies have been grounded by a shared belief in a common higher power. (I'm an atheist btw)

>This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole

This refutation seems to be as vague and unfounded as the thing it's refuting and doesn't provide much value. It would be beneficial to everyone reading if you can elucidate.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#13

Post by kewrkewm53 »

Nursie wrote: post #5

> We need these roots. You might. I need friends and family, some community participation is nice, sure, but I don't particularly feel the need for gods, ancient traditions or worship, which these seem to be tied up with in the text. > Our culture is not in danger of dying; it is already dead, and we are in denial. This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole.

I think that in the long run wider societies need some shared belief system / culture / ideas to function properly, just like all kinds of communities do in smaller scale.

Essentially we are tribal animals, and nothing can really change that. Without a sense of common identity there's little solidarity, and without solidarity you'll eventually have conflict. Failed states with civil wars tend to be those which lack any kind of common identity and ideas, while more successful ones tend to have those.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#14

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

burntoutfire wrote: post #8
seandoe wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. It's a shame we choose to focus on our subtle differences to intentionally divide ourselves.

> I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. We are mostly connected to each other via sanitized business transactions. Meanwhile, we don't even know the names of most of our neighbors.

Not knowing one's neighbours may seem like a problem to you, but it can be a great thing for others. So many young people who move from close-knit small towns or villages to big cities (especially, but not only, sexual minorities), find it liberating that no one is scrutinizing their lifestyles like back home.

Also, countries like Finland manage to be high-trust and relatively homogeneous societies, while at the same time having strong expectations for privacy in a block of flats, where neighbours might find it uncomfortable and intrusive if you tried to interact with them.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#15

Post by wbeckler »

The question arises, what do you do about the Machine? How do you get roots? If you are looking for answers, a great place to start is "Braiding Sweetgrass" by ecology professor and Native American Robin Wall Kimmerer. I'm an avid reader across many genres, and this is my favorite book. Many people I know have said that this book was the most important book they've read. When I look at my own life, I can see the difference between pre-Braiding Sweetgrass and post.

It is chock full of ways for people to become rooted, even from a cold start. Here's the wikipedia page about the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braiding_Sweetgrass

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#16

Post by totetsu »

Nursie wrote: post #5

> We need these roots. You might. I need friends and family, some community participation is nice, sure, but I don't particularly feel the need for gods, ancient traditions or worship, which these seem to be tied up with in the text. > Our culture is not in danger of dying; it is already dead, and we are in denial. This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole.

Well she was a christian mystic, with Jewish parents, so its bound to be tied up with that. If you get past that even as an atheist a lot of her writings are quite thought provoking. IIRC, using spiritual thinking as a flashlight to illuminate the unknown that is outside what can be understood by reason, or, that which is divided is also connected .. and maybe some stuff about friends and separation

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#17

Post by wbeckler »

wbeckler wrote: post #15

The question arises, what do you do about the Machine? How do you get roots? If you are looking for answers, a great place to start is "Braiding Sweetgrass" by ecology professor and Native American Robin Wall Kimmerer. I'm an avid reader across many genres, and this is my favorite book. Many people I know have said that this book was the most important book they've read. When I look at my own life, I can see the diff…

Also of note, even though it was written in 2013, it is today number two on the NYTimes bestseller list, and it's been on the list for 53 weeks. A lot of people are feeling like it's time to grow roots: https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sellers/paperback-nonfict...

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#18

Post by burntoutfire »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #14
burntoutfire wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. We are mostly connected to each other via sanitized business transactions. Meanwhile, we don't even know the names of most of our neighbors.

Not knowing one's neighbours may seem like a problem to you, but it can be a great thing for others. So many young people who move from close-knit small towns or villages to big cities (especially, but not only, sexual minorities), find it liberating that no one is scrutinizing their lifestyles like back home. Also, countries like Finland manage to be high-trust and relatively homogeneous societies, while at the same…

People used to depend on neighbors - for example, they helped each other on their farms on a regular basis. Now it's no longer the case and perhaps the dynamics you're describing is the worst of both worlds, where the actual economical need for rich and frequent interactions with neighbors is gone and everything that's left is the nosiness. But, this itself is a result of modernity compartmentalizing people to the degree where they practically never need help from their neighbors.

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#19

Post by totetsu »

seandoe wrote: post #3
killtimeatwork wrote: post #2

I tend to fully agree with the thesis. Sadly, there's nothing to return to, so I am condemned to live in a current barren wasteland of modernity.

I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. It's a shame we choose to focus on our subtle differences to intentionally divide ourselves.

This loud obnoxious Chicago Italian botanist youtuber often makes that point eloquently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsAFpSXj7Y

Re: Simone Weil and the Need for Roots

#20

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

burntoutfire wrote: post #18
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knowing one's neighbours may seem like a problem to you, but it can be a great thing for others. So many young people who move from close-knit small towns or villages to big cities (especially, but not only, sexual minorities), find it liberating that no one is scrutinizing their lifestyles like back home. Also, countries like Finland manage to be high-trust and relatively homogeneous societies, while at the same…

People used to depend on neighbors - for example, they helped each other on their farms on a regular basis. Now it's no longer the case and perhaps the dynamics you're describing is the worst of both worlds, where the actual economical need for rich and frequent interactions with neighbors is gone and everything that's left is the nosiness. But, this itself is a result of modernity compartmentalizing people to the de…

But if you live in a successful welfare state, what need have you for help from your neighbours? The welfare state might help you even better, as it can benefit from economies of scale, and it will not demand anything in return from you except, once you are working a normal job, your taxes. Also, depictions of pre-welfare-state help from neighbours often underscore how that help was always conditional: sexual and racial minorities, women with children out of wedlock, people not members of the locally dominant church or political wing, etc. often found their pleas for help rejected.
Post reply on HN