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.NET for Beginners (2020)

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Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#11

Post by sethammons »

radicalriddler wrote: post #6

I didn't read the whole article, just scanned it. But I'm surprised he chose Golang as a low-cognition entry barrier language. As a developer on Windows (relevant since we're talking about .NET), setting up Go was a pain in the ass. Making sure that my PATH variables were set up correctly and all that jazz, and then I'd run into issue after issue with packages and paths. I don't know what it is about golang, but man,…

having never worked with Go on Windows, was that recently? With modules, you can just pick a new directory of your choice, `go mod init` and you are ready to start work. As for packages and paths, it is just URLs.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#12

Post by gameswithgo »

ramenmeal wrote: post #10
okareaman wrote: post #9

If you want to get anything done with C you learn the stdlib. With python you need to learn the package system. With C# you have to learn .NET. I don't see that it is that much more complicated. Python also has problems with shared code versioning. Modern PHP still suffers from carrying old crufty PHP code along

The issue he's stating is deciding which ".net"

doesnt matter they are 99% the same, in the same way java versions coming out dont require you to relearn java or the java core libs

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#13

Post by devmunchies »

powersnail wrote: post #4
Rochus wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can I learn C++ and llvm" Rather "C++ and Qt" or "C++ and Boost".

"C++ and Qt" would be more analogous to "C# and WPF". .Net to C# is perhaps more like JVM to Java.

no. CLR would be the JVM equivalent.

.net would be like the OpenJDK

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#14

Post by kovac »

radicalriddler wrote: post #6

I didn't read the whole article, just scanned it. But I'm surprised he chose Golang as a low-cognition entry barrier language. As a developer on Windows (relevant since we're talking about .NET), setting up Go was a pain in the ass. Making sure that my PATH variables were set up correctly and all that jazz, and then I'd run into issue after issue with packages and paths. I don't know what it is about golang, but man,…

Same here. Package management was non existent at the time, not sure how it is now.

There are pointers without pointer arithmetic, I really don't know why they are there. If you already know programming you will be fine with go, but if it's the first language someone learns I think they'll go catatonic when they are exposed to real pointers, dealing with shared memory, package management, generics, etc. because its going to be hard unlearning ways used in go.

On the plus side go is small and very performanent.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#15

Post by okareaman »

gameswithgo wrote: post #12
ramenmeal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue he's stating is deciding which ".net"

doesnt matter they are 99% the same, in the same way java versions coming out dont require you to relearn java or the java core libs

C# was never intended to run everywhere. It was a Java clone for Windows. Now msft wants to make it run everywhere. There's going to be some confusion in the transition.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#16

Post by gameswithgo »

devmunchies wrote: post #13
powersnail wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"C++ and Qt" would be more analogous to "C# and WPF". .Net to C# is perhaps more like JVM to Java.

no. CLR would be the JVM equivalent. .net would be like the OpenJDK

don't try to make solid analogies for nebulous ill defined terms like .NET!

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#17

Post by t-writescode »

gameswithgo wrote: post #16
devmunchies wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no. CLR would be the JVM equivalent. .net would be like the OpenJDK

don't try to make solid analogies for nebulous ill defined terms like .NET!

I know you're making a joke, but the article says:

> In particular questions around the differences between .NET, .NET Core, Mono, Xamarin, and the relation between C#, F#, VB.NET and what a target framework or a runtime is add very little to almost no benefit to one's initial learning experience.

So, I assume they primarily mean the particular set of libraries being used

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#18

Post by [deleted] »

t-writescode wrote: post #17
gameswithgo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't try to make solid analogies for nebulous ill defined terms like .NET!

I know you're making a joke, but the article says: > In particular questions around the differences between .NET, .NET Core, Mono, Xamarin, and the relation between C#, F#, VB.NET and what a target framework or a runtime is add very little to almost no benefit to one's initial learning experience. So, I assume they primarily mean the particular set of libraries being used

[deleted]

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#19

Post by tracker1 »

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

This goes on critiquing how C# has a high barrier to entry because you have to learn [insert long list of popular C# frameworks]. But no, you don't have to learn any of those things, you can just start learning C#. Then: "Just think about the upcoming release of .NET 5 and how it will invalidate most of the lessons taught just a few months ago .... the wider .NET community has failed in making .NET a more beginner fr…

Okay, where do you start in Learning C#? What do I have to install? What should I install?

Even those are complex questions with a few answers. I started with C# two decades ago with the command line compiler and a very large book. There was really only a single option, and since I didn't have MSDN access, no beta VS for me.

Today, I would suggest that a developer start with .Net 5 and VS Code, with the extension installed. Walking through the `dotnet` CLI. Unfortunately, getting started like that is convoluted with two decades of information/tutorials etc that will not directly apply, or be difficult to walk through.

For that matter, having followed .Net Core from the initial versions, it's been somewhat painful. Figuring out how to migrate/update web applications hasn't been anthing resembling transparent or consistent, and some things are just plain difficult to figure out along the way. There is a crap ton of secondary knowledge you need to be able to do a lot of things that are just easier in other platforms/languages.

Add support for an Authorize header with an RSA signed JWT token to your API.. go ahead... in Node, it took me a couple hours... with .Net Core having well over a decade of experience with C#, it took me the better part of 2 weeks to get things working the way I wanted to. All the tutorials were for older interfaces/apis etc. It was just ugly to say the least.

Hell, if MS would just standardize on keywork formats for thinggs... #dotnetcore3 or similar so that search terms via google could give you more relevant results... that just doesn't happen.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate C#, and .Net ... .Net Core itself had me working with .Net again with interest after years of migrating solutions towards options that are easier to write, containerize and scale.

I'm still more inclined to reach for Node or for that matter, to push for Go or Rust, at least it's a consideration again.

But it is anything but something easy to get started with, or for that matter, upgrade projects with. Python 2 to 3 was a cleaner migration option.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#20

Post by t-writescode »

tracker1 wrote: post #19
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

This goes on critiquing how C# has a high barrier to entry because you have to learn [insert long list of popular C# frameworks]. But no, you don't have to learn any of those things, you can just start learning C#. Then: "Just think about the upcoming release of .NET 5 and how it will invalidate most of the lessons taught just a few months ago .... the wider .NET community has failed in making .NET a more beginner fr…

Okay, where do you start in Learning C#? What do I have to install? What should I install? Even those are complex questions with a few answers. I started with C# two decades ago with the command line compiler and a very large book. There was really only a single option, and since I didn't have MSDN access, no beta VS for me. Today, I would suggest that a developer start with .Net 5 and VS Code, with the extension ins…

> Okay, where do you start in Learning C#? What do I have to install? What should I install?

Visual Studio Community Edition 2019.

Done.

edit: I would encourage using regular .Net, not .Net Core until they've reached a certain threshold.

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