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Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

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Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#11

Post by sneak »

graeme wrote: post #6
sneak wrote: post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

Wikipedia mentions the 80/50 problem. At some point the Hikkomori will be 50, and their parents, their sole means of support, will be 80. The Hikkomori are not capable of supporting themselves and will run into trouble. I also expect there are health effects to lifelong withdrawal from all social contact and from not leaving one’s room. We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement.

> We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement.

Meant by whom? Perhaps you aren't, but to make that claim for others is to fundamentally deny them their agency, as if they are mentally incompetent. I don't think these people are, for the most part, mentally incompetent.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#12

Post by Ansil849 »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #4
jchw wrote: post #2

Archive link: https://archive.is/P8Ym2 There is a nag that tries to force you to enter your e-mail mid-way down the page.

you can also use uBlock Origin to zap the elements.

Can you get it to successfully work on this page?

Zapping elements gets rid of the pop-up, but also makes scrolling impossible.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#13

Post by davesque »

kjrose wrote: post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

Maybe? Seems like that's assuming a lot about a person's life.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#14

Post by ilaksh »

rootusrootus wrote: post #5
sneak wrote: post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

> Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? In the article they mention that the parents pay $8K per year or more for this service.

The parents are paying for everything. Food, housing, etc.

To me it seems like this is basically an extreme on a spectrum of people who are struggling. I have always had difficulty socializing and there were years where I lived with my parents and struggled to find an adequate job. For at least two years I had completely given up. And with my poor self-confidence and social skills, I would not often attempt to socialize then or now.

But your income is a huge aspect of your identity in this world. Without any income or a good one, it is going to be hard for anyone to be confident around other people. And with no income for an extended period, that type of shame will make you want to avoid people altogether.

Even the last several years where I have had income from online contract programming, I have basically been a hermit and rarely attempt socializing. I feel that honestly part of it is just that I don't think people are comfortable around me. But a big issue is the poor income and lack of self-confidence that comes with that.

And reinforcing this stuff are my health issues that have caused me years ago to abandon the idea of high-paid stressful jobs. I have not considered a job with a commute in many years.

I feel like what I need is an income about four to six times what seems comfortable for me to maintain. Then I can get out of this financial hole, move back to the United States, pay for good health insurance and hopefully resolve my health issue, and hold my head up high as a property owner.

I am not dependent on other people or totally isolated, but I do avoid socializing. My dream is to design, build, and manufacturer robots, so I am experimenting with computer vision.

What I do not want to do and don't think I could do even if I tried, is a hardcore 9-5 job working for someone else on projects that are a total waste of time. I would rather continue to be poor.

And I will just mention one other thing. Appearance may also factor into this sometimes. Notice that one of the men pictured has mixed blood. That bit of difference that he has could be just one more factor contributing to his isolation. For me, I am quite self-conscious and often am not even sure if my facial asymmetry is in the normal range.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#15

Post by justbored123 »

sneak wrote: post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

Yea, I don't see the problem with it unless the person who is doing it wants to change but can't. These type of people has always existed, they used to be secluded at a monastery and then it was socially acceptable for them to be isolated all of their lives doing little or nothing, reading and "praying" and "meditating" all day.

How is it much better to slave away at a minimal wage job at a McDonald's or a desk job shuffling papers for 40 years surrounded by people that treat you like shit? (service workers have horror stories to tell about bosses and customers alike).

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#16

Post by crocodiletears »

sneak wrote: post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

They contribute to dearth of social participation, declining population, and I'd reckon are a net drain on the country's productivity.

They're symptomatic of something gone very wrong. Withdrawing from the world for a prolonged period shouldn't be so appealing that an entire social class develops around doing so.

Not to say I don't sympathize, ofc.

The problem does seem somewhat overstated though. Wikipedia says ~400,000 people in a population of 125 million.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#17

Post by pm90 »

sneak wrote: post #11
graeme wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia mentions the 80/50 problem. At some point the Hikkomori will be 50, and their parents, their sole means of support, will be 80. The Hikkomori are not capable of supporting themselves and will run into trouble. I also expect there are health effects to lifelong withdrawal from all social contact and from not leaving one’s room. We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement.

> We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement. Meant by whom? Perhaps you aren't, but to make that claim for others is to fundamentally deny them their agency, as if they are mentally incompetent. I don't think these people are, for the most part, mentally incompetent.

I believe there’s research in the social sciences that show that social contact and connections have a very positive impact on people’s health.

Of course, such studies measure the average so each individual’s situation may be different. But it’s also not clear to me why it would be different for such large of a group.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#18

Post by ralusek »

ForrestN wrote: post #9

Brief photo theory interlude: beware of rhetoric about photographs "revealing" or "exploring" things. These photographs are telling a story , and have all the subjectivities and editing that we take for granted in written works. They are not empirical evidence, they are works made to represent and persuade. When you see something framed this way, proceed skeptically!

This has Big Hikikomori written all over it.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#19

Post by enjoyyourlife »

Ansil849 wrote: post #12
HiroshiSan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can also use uBlock Origin to zap the elements.

Can you get it to successfully work on this page? Zapping elements gets rid of the pop-up, but also makes scrolling impossible.

nationalgeographic.com##html:style(height:100%!important;overflow:scroll!important;position: static !important)

nationalgeographic.com##body:style(height:100%!important;overflow:scroll!important;position: static !important)

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#20

Post by saeranv »

kjrose wrote: post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

I noticed this too, because it seemed to be a common theme for many of the men, and also, pretty relatable. Who doesn't think of themselves as capable of "extraordinary things"?

If they could recontextualize failure as adversity: a key part of learning, and making progress, the failure could build resilience instead of compounding to a point where they feel like they are better off giving up and isolating.

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