The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC • Hacker News Board

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#11

Post by neogodless » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

The article links to FLoC[0] but the site gives me a 404. I used Google, a popular web search engine, to discover what FLoC stands for[1].

> Federated Learning of Cohorts

> a new way to make your browser do the profiling that third-party trackers used to do themselves: in this case, boiling down your recent browsing activity into a behavioral label, and then sharing it with websites and advertisers

[0] https://blog.google/products/ad

[1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/03/googles-floc-terrible-...

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#12

Post by sanxiyn » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

f6v wrote: post #6

echelon wrote: post #3

The DOJ needs to strip Google's ability to run the world's most popular browser away from it. This is far more blatant than Microsoft antitrust with Internet Explorer. Google is literally shaping the entire internet into their ad funnel. Google cannot be allowed to run Chrome.

Who is then?

A company that is independent from advertisers like Google and Facebook.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#13

Post by dubcanada » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote: post #5

echelon wrote: post #3

The DOJ needs to strip Google's ability to run the world's most popular browser away from it. This is far more blatant than Microsoft antitrust with Internet Explorer. Google is literally shaping the entire internet into their ad funnel. Google cannot be allowed to run Chrome.

Google needs to be split up, plain and simple. They are the most dangerous company in America

Then Microsoft would just take over?

You can't just point fingers at a specific company and say, yes that giant monopoly out of the other 50 monopolies is the bad one. The others are perfectly fine.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#14

Post by TameAntelope » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #3

The DOJ needs to strip Google's ability to run the world's most popular browser away from it. This is far more blatant than Microsoft antitrust with Internet Explorer. Google is literally shaping the entire internet into their ad funnel. Google cannot be allowed to run Chrome.

So if you create something interesting enough, the government shouldn't let you keep it? What kind of incentive is that to create interesting things?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#15

Post by Chlorus » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

> Such adverts may be seen as a way to make money but can be used to influence user behaviour and control people in large numbers

FLoC & ad-tracking sucks but can we dial back the hysteria?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#16

Post by tobyjsullivan » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

jereees wrote: post #10

I’m sure there has to be a better way to introduce the audience to FLoC. I’m over five paragraphs in and the article hasn’t properly articulated what is FLoC and _why_ it is bad. Just that it is bad.

I wonder if that's because there's no short way to describe FLoC in a way that makes it sound bad for users. They'd need one paragraph to introduce FLoC, then another three making nuanced arguments about how it's actually worse than the status quo, and only then could they get to the core post about not supporting it.

Better to avoid that fire and just let the reader infer FLoC is bad, whatever it is.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#17

Post by kristofferR » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:32 PM UTC

jereees wrote: post #10

I’m sure there has to be a better way to introduce the audience to FLoC. I’m over five paragraphs in and the article hasn’t properly articulated what is FLoC and _why_ it is bad. Just that it is bad.

Please RTFA before commenting, they explain it very well further down. The subsection literally has the header "How does FloC work?", not exactly hard to find.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#18

Post by oh_sigh » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:32 PM UTC

Doesn't Vivaldi allow 3rd party cookies by default? Because if they do it seems a bit hypocritical to dislike a potential for abuse of FLoC when the ability to abuse 3rd party cookies is far simpler and more direct.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#19

Post by nimih » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

Chlorus wrote: post #15

> Such adverts may be seen as a way to make money but can be used to influence user behaviour and control people in large numbers FLoC & ad-tracking sucks but can we dial back the hysteria?

Isn't efficient advertising, the stated goal of FLoC, precisely the practice of influencing and controlling behavior on a large scale?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#20

Post by sanxiyn » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:34 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #14

echelon wrote: post #3

The DOJ needs to strip Google's ability to run the world's most popular browser away from it. This is far more blatant than Microsoft antitrust with Internet Explorer. Google is literally shaping the entire internet into their ad funnel. Google cannot be allowed to run Chrome.

So if you create something interesting enough, the government shouldn't let you keep it? What kind of incentive is that to create interesting things?

People, sovereign, elected congress which passed antitrust law. You are not allowed to keep it because law passed by duly elected representatives of sovereign people says so.

To fix incentive problems, convince people.