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How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

independent.co.uk

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Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#11

Post by ocschwar »

I'm going to plug this Iraqi-founded and run organization:

Ideas" rel="nofollow">https://www.ideasbeyondborders.org">Ideas Beyond Borders. They're paying Iraqis to translate things to Arabic and expand the Arabic Wikipedia. The idea is to expand the range of aspirations Arabs can cultivate and pursue.

Also, (and I say this as an Israeli): it needs to become easier for Iraqis to land student and work visas elsewhere. The worldwide clampdown in travel and migration, even before Covid it was particularly difficult for Iraqis, and so was keeping them in this pressure cooker.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#12

Post by fighterpilot »

mc32 wrote: post #3

I know we have a few advocates for legalization. How do you address this scourge with legalization beyond a principles based approach and one that deals with the reality on the ground? I’m for soft drugs legalization, but when it comes to these things that just consume people I cannot see legalization as a viable approach.

Legalize less damaging alternatives. The cost and risk of the legal alternatives will drop and people will have an incentive to do something other than street meth.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#13

Post by ch4s3 »

mc32 wrote: post #6
el_nahual wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Decriminalization and legalization brings peoples addiction out of the kind of hiding that prohibition requires. This makes it easier and safer for people to seek addiction services, and easier for their loved ones to spot their problematic use earlier. Portugal is testament to this.

Also consider places like the Netherlands or various states in the US where cannabis is legally available. What you see there is that other drug use shifts to cannabis which is relatively safer than alcohol or opioids. You also see declining rates of use among teenagers as it become less mysterious and dangerous but rather common and uncool.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#14

Post by api »

shawnz wrote: post #10
api wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't legalize meth. We should legalize moderate doses of time-release amphetamine (not methamphetamine, basically adderall). It would displace meth in the marketplace to a great degree if it's readily available, and while it is somewhat dangerous if heavily abused it is far less addictive and dangerous than meth. Making it time release would also somewhat reduce abuse potential. Yes you can crunch it up and s…

It's likely the abuse potential of methampetamine is similar to amphetamine (see e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475187/ ) So, the chemical is probably not the problem. It's also likely methamphetamine performs better for medical use cases. See: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines EDIT: Otherwise, though, I thoroughly agree with what you are saying here in that having acces…

I don't have first-hand experience, but I know people who do. Every single person I've spoken to who has had an issue with drugs has said that methamphetamine is "different."

But of course that's not scientific. I'm not sure how many reliable studies have been done. It could be a result of the potency of street meth rather than the chemical.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#15

Post by shawnz »

api wrote: post #14
shawnz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely the abuse potential of methampetamine is similar to amphetamine (see e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475187/ ) So, the chemical is probably not the problem. It's also likely methamphetamine performs better for medical use cases. See: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines EDIT: Otherwise, though, I thoroughly agree with what you are saying here in that having acces…

I don't have first-hand experience, but I know people who do. Every single person I've spoken to who has had an issue with drugs has said that methamphetamine is "different." But of course that's not scientific. I'm not sure how many reliable studies have been done. It could be a result of the potency of street meth rather than the chemical.

I've taken both and I think they are basically indistinguishable (besides strength per dose and maybe duration). So there is a counterpoint for you.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#16

Post by tonyedgecombe »

mc32 wrote: post #6
el_nahual wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Cigarettes are legal yet many Western countries have been successful at driving down their use.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#17

Post by elmomle »

mc32 wrote: post #6
el_nahual wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Legalization is one key part; destigmatization is the other.

Those who understand addiction, either first-hand or through research, understand that the root problem is not the drug/habit; the drug/habit tends to be the addict's best known way to sooth immense psychological pain. Shame drives addiction in deeper. So to actually help addicts, one needs to destigmatize the conversation, allow people to say "Hey, I'm in a bad place and I need help" with minimal fear of being judged (the addict tends to already hate their self pretty profoundly). And given how human nature works, destigmatization depends on legality.

Stopping addiction isn't about judging addicts; it's about understanding the root cause of their problem (which tends to be intense emotional trauma) and giving them empathic help to start building healthy relationships.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#18

Post by el_nahual »

mc32 wrote: post #6
el_nahual wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the reality on the ground says that drugs being illegal does not actually make them unavailable. That much is clear! So the idea behind legalization is not "it should be easier to do drugs!" but rather: 1. It's already easy to do drugs, so how can we make it safer to do drugs? 2. Precisely because of drugs' illegality, extraordinary rents are collected by some of the worst humans on earth. Can we make drugs leg…

How is making it safer to do drugs manage addiction? Ok, so I don’t get adulterated drugs, that still doesn’t do anything for the addiction. Are we then going to actively discourage people from doing drugs? If so how? What effective form does that take?

Again, drugs exist and are available now. So you shouldn't think of the options as "drugs are legal and available vs drugs are illegal and unavailable". They are available in either case!

Making drugs legal means that one can control the points and conditions of distribution. So one could require licensing, education, or even controlled application. Sure, you can take good, cheap, heroin, but you have to take it here.

Of course, the more onerous the path the get legal drugs, the more appealing illegal drugs become, so there's a safety -maximizing point somewhere along that integral.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#19

Post by tcj_phx »

Stimulants -- amphetamines, cocaine, etc -- have physiological effects sort-of similar to Mono Amine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOI). MAOIs were sold as the first generation of anti-depressant drugs. These substances have mood-elevating benefits sort-of similar to cocaine and amphetamine, but without the euphoria and crash.

Later generations of anti-depressants are less effective that the MAOIs, but MAOIs fell out use because doctors of that era tended to think newer==better, some MAOIs caused side effects when combined with fermented foods (fine cheese, etc), and patents allowed for a marketing budget for the pharmaceutical companies to promote their latest FDA-approved prescriptions to physicians.

Stimulants do their harm by shredding the mitochondria [0]. My observations are that Cocaine is a much safer stimulant than meth amphetamine.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18211048

Emotional stress is a very important driver of substance abuse. Anything that restores the mitochondria/metabolism helps with stimulant abuse. Most important is helping the person find meaning.

Re: How Iraq’s crystal meth epidemic is ravaging the nation

#20

Post by [deleted] »

kaesar14 wrote: post #2

Everytime I read an article like this, 18 years out from the start of the war, I'm reminded of this Onion headline from that time: https://www.theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entir... "This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t" The statistic in this article about under-25 unemployment being 36% breaks my heart. This would've been…

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