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If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

nytimes.com

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Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#11

Post by adrianh »

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS.

So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser.

As such, Safari is basically the new IE6 — it lags all other modern browsers and prevents websites from taking advantage of nice new features. (Yes, some of these features are available with polyfills but others are not polyfillable.)

I wish the author had noted this, given the high visibility of the NYT. More people need to know about Apple’s neutering of browsers on iOS. It’s crippling the growth of the web.

One specific example: Safari still doesn’t support AudioWorklet, which means iOS users get lower-quality slowdown in my product Soundslice (a feature we rolled out last week: https://www.soundslice.com/blog/199/introducing-enhanced-slo...). If more iOS users knew about this, perhaps they’d lobby Apple for better web support.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#12

Post by ricc »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

The author probably doesn't know this.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#13

Post by franklyt »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

I can’t believe this was overlooked by a prestigious publication.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#14

Post by nwienert »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

Which is actually a good thing for the diversity of browser engines and preventing Google from commandeering web standards and “embrace, extend, extinguish”ing them.

If Chrome was allowed on iOS be sure Google would dump unlimited money to get people to use it. Websites would further go down the path of only testing on Chrome, and Google would continue stuffing their browser full of oftentimes needless features. And they’d continue all their other disgusting practices like AMP even less fettered than before.

The literal only hedge against this right now is Safari. I thank the powers that be that Apple doesn’t let other engines on.

That, and, Safari is miles ahead of any other engine in terms of performance. It’s not even close.

And answer this: how would allowing other engines increase privacy? WebKit does more for privacy than almost any other, and allows installing privacy extensions and wrappers like Firefox. Without that, you’d have people using Chrome more than using Firefox.. a regression in privacy.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#15

Post by geofft »

adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

I'm not sure that's relevant for privacy - for privacy, the specific thing you need is content blocking, right?

I agree it's important for functionality and the general health of the web as a platform, but those don't seem to be the point of the article.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#16

Post by cmeacham98 »

nwienert wrote: post #14
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

Which is actually a good thing for the diversity of browser engines and preventing Google from commandeering web standards and “embrace, extend, extinguish”ing them. If Chrome was allowed on iOS be sure Google would dump unlimited money to get people to use it. Websites would further go down the path of only testing on Chrome, and Google would continue stuffing their browser full of oftentimes needless features. And…

> That, and, Safari is miles ahead of any other engine in terms of performance. It’s not even close.

How is it fair to make this statement about iOS where no other engine is even allowed? Maybe Chrome(ium) and/or Firefox would be faster than Webkit on iOS if they were actually allowed to develop for it, or maybe Safari would be the best. It's impossible to know because Apple prevents any competition here.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#17

Post by izacus »

franklyt wrote: post #13
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

I can’t believe this was overlooked by a prestigious publication.

Honestly, I find NYTs privacy articles to be full of errors and deliberate omissions to drive the agenda. It's seriously made me question about their reputation.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#18

Post by preommr »

This is not the way.

If we relegate privacy to fringe browsers like this, we'll lose in the long run.

It's not possible to have 0.05% percent of the market, and try and compete with goliaths like Google. So it creates a feedback loop of a browser that people don't really use because it lacks features/popularity. Or/and these companies are also forced to do things like Brave and their in-browser ads.

Meanwhile there'll be a group of people that'll say things like 'if you really want privacy don't use chrome, use these private browsers'. Completely taking off the pressure on the bigger browsers.

Also, catering specifically to privacy is always weird. It makes people think that you have something to hide. Everybody wants privacy, but someone really goes out of their way, it makes you think they have something very serious (i.e. illegal) to hide. It's sketchy.

There needs to be a collective awareness and greater pressure put on browser companies.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#19

Post by dtx1 »

franklyt wrote: post #13
adrianh wrote: post #11

The author was testing these browsers on an iPhone — but neglected to note that Apple actually prevents other browser engines on iOS. So if you use Firefox or Brave on an iPhone, you’re simply using Safari with a different “skin.” This skin can clearly do some content blocking, and it can provide a different browser UI — but it cannot change the fundamental web technologies that are available in the browser. As such,…

I can’t believe this was overlooked by a prestigious publication.

Doesn't surprise me at all. The reality is that journalists are just that, journalists. They rarely have any relevant expertise about what they write. Coupled with strict limits on content size enforced by publishers and an audience that often understands even less about the topics discussed you get major errors like these.

The amount of text necessary to explain to the average NYT reader what a rendering engine is probably more then the allotted text size for this piece of pseudo-intellectual garbage. Should make you worry about everything else journalists write with the same lack of care and understanding of details.

This is why podcasts and longform youtube content form actual experts is thriving while traditional media is dying. They have optimized so much for short attention span, clickbaity and inflammatory content that they have lost all resemblance of quality and expertise. In short, for any given topic, if the explanation is less than an hour long discussion piece, it's almost guaranteed to be simplified to the point of being wrong and useless.

Re: If you care about privacy, it’s time to try a new web browser

#20

Post by bejelentkezni »

If you want as hardline a view on privacy in web browsing as possible, I recommend browsing through the Spyware Watchdog[1] and this article[2] from one of its main contributors. Many will find that their standards are too high for them, and may seem paranoid or such, but it is notable that both Firefox and Chrome have existing forks that even these hardliners deem clean, so for a browser to be guaranteed spyware-free is not only possible but a present reality. Brave is not private.

1: https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/index.html

2: https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/browsers.html

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